How much you want to pay for HWBOT?

[Massman]

DISCLAIMER: HWBOT is in no way planning to charge the community for our services!

The idea of paying subscription for HWBOT was suggested by some users from the community. This is just a poll to see how many users would actually put in money for HWBOT and to check whether this is a viable solution or not.

[tiborrr]

I donate 10e/year anyway. If anyone could muster that you'd be rolling in cash :D

[rickss69]

Appears already we are at the same crossroad...about half the voters want something for nothing. As stated previously, something for nothing is usually worth exactly just that...

[Massman]

FYI, I voted €5000.

This poll will just confirm what I mentioned before: user donations can give us a nice little bonus, but will not be enough to cover costs.

[Leeghoofd]

10 euros here... I have 4 children, 3 wifes and a bunch of cats...

I hope we get at least over 200 people that just vote here... but I think I already know the outcome...

[rickss69]

FYI, I voted €5000.

This poll will just confirm what I mentioned before: user donations can give us a nice little bonus, but will not be enough to cover costs.

If say, half of your members donated the middle of the spectrum would that work out in your calculations?

[zoro]

i prefer donations (good word) , not payments (bad word) :p

[RoccoESA]

1 to 2 EUR in the month should have everyone remaining

[Ol'Bud]

Let's see;
How much is that in Dollars U.S. Currency?
How about a $10.00 per anum fee for keeping all the boints cataloged for everyone who is paid up.

Not paid up?
then no points,submittals or username showing on the board.

[thebanik]

Massman whats your yearly salary btw, :p

Voted : 50 Euros.

[rickss69]

Just as an example: I am one of the minority members in a game clan that donates approximately $200 yearly to help keep our game server afloat. I say minority because I realize that roughly 20% of our members donate (an optimistic number btw) on a regular basis.

I feel like this is treated like a forum sometimes where constant mindless posts are made without any concern as to the business end is considered. After all, any endeavour has a pricetag and requires attention at some point. Any rational person realizes this fact and to ignore it is senseless.

I know it will not be a popular notion, but if all were serious about it they would have no problem helping with the upkeep of a valued commodity. If even half of the pay for nothing crowd left the scene it would certainly be of little matter in the long haul and would drastically cut down on the workload.

[RoccoESA]

How about a $10.00 per anum fee for keeping all the bionts cataloged for everyone who is paid up.

Not paid up?
then no points,submittals or username showing on the board.


I find that acceptable

[rickss69]

Let's see;
How much is that in Dollars U.S. Currency?
How about a $10.00 per anum fee for keeping all the bionts cataloged for everyone who is paid up.

Not paid up?
then no points,submittals or username showing on the board.

Exactly what I mean Bud...:)

[MaJ0r]

I voted 0. Explainations: I could pay 5-10 euro for year but I have no PayPal(to expensive for rare using).

[Ol'Bud]

i prefer donations (good word) , not payments (bad word) :p



How about let's not call it payment or donation;
But instead we call it "Annual Membership Dues".

Because it looks like that's where it was all headed in the beginning of all this at the outset of the conversation about....

HWBOT Rev.4 - The Plan.
http://hwbot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10842


..

[Barisan]

how ewer we all have one life outher HWBOT :)
Voted: 50€

[marmott]

I voted 25€, I thinnk it's a resonable cost for the service even if I'm not a big user.

But I'm wondering if it's not dangerous to rely on the members money, I think it's a much more unstable income than advertising revenue or partnership fees.

[zoro]

whoever wants to "pay", he/she donates anyway.
not everyone has a decent job, some of us no job at all. 10$ here, 15$ there, 20$ somewhere else... you understand the meaning.
I personally prefer to donate these money here: http://www.msf.org/
;)
thus i vote for sponsors all the way!

[Ol'Bud]

I think if the Manufacturers who would have unhindered access to the data base should pay the greatest portion of the overhead for access.

And the overhead includes the annual fee for the hosting,Software to run the site as there are necessary updates,salaries so Massman can go on vacation all the way to Chile,Argentina,Bolivia All the way up through Panama' and Costa Rica and Beyond to make amends with the Latin Community that is hot under the collar about all this.

RB doesn't need and Salary,He got too much money now as it is.

Con Cuidado,Se me va a salir el Panameno.
No joda!

[rickss69]

I voted 25€, I thinnk it's a resonable cost for the service even if I'm not a big user.

But I'm wondering if it's not dangerous to rely on the members money, I think it's a much more unstable income than advertising revenue or partnership fees.

For one thing we are not talking about a major corporation here. From earlier statements where it was not intended from the beginning to charge members anything for the service just bolsters that fact.

Not to single anyone out, but if you click on most anyone's name and check how much hardware they have purchased in this hobby I submit it is ridiculous for anyone to kick about a small yearly fee.

[rickss69]

whoever wants to "pay", he/she donates anyway.
not everyone has a decent job, some of us no job at all. 10$ here, 15$ there, 20$ somewhere else... you understand the meaning.
I personally prefer to donate these money here: http://www.msf.org/
;)
thus i vote for sponsors all the way!

For someone without a job they will not be purchasing pc hardware and thus will not be a factor in this conversation. We all have priority's in life...it is up to the individual where his lies.

[Antinomy]

MaJ0r, yeah, it's quite hard to make a PP and too expensive for using it two or three times a year. But the topic was about donation ;) There are ways to solve the payment question if it's necessary.

[cyclone]

EUR10-30 per annum should be OK for those who are interested in and play active game at HWBOT.

2 Massman: I perfectly understand the staff here 'cuz enthusiastic IT-projects all over the world have similar problems :) If any certain plans might be created, just think about some bonuses that users who donated might get, and make them more noticeable. Only few pay attention to "Donate" button, I suppose. On the other hand, options for money shouldn't be critical for participating in rankings, or you may loose thousands of 'so-so interested' guys.

[packet]

every sport in the World you have to pay some kind of membership fee...i have no worries about supporting my sport (even with the killer exchange rate :)

[rickss69]

EUR10-30 per annum should be OK for those who are interested in and play active game at HWBOT.

2 Massman: I perfectly understand the staff here 'cuz enthusiastic IT-projects all over the world have similar problems :) If any certain plans might be created, just think about some bonuses that users who donated might get, and make them more noticeable. Only few pay attention to "Donate" button, I suppose. On the other hand, options for money shouldn't be critical for participating in rankings, or you may loose thousands of 'so-so interested' guys.

Those "thousands of so-so interested" guys are the problem cyclone. In effect, what have you lost if every one of them disappeared? Pardon me if I seem harsh and pragmatic...we are not talking submissions here, but support of a site.

[zoro]

Those "thousands of so-so interested" guys are the problem cyclone. In effect, what have you lost if every one of them disappeared?

so you prefer to kick out all the "small" members and keep the BOT with only the elit?
I thought this was the case with the different leagues proposal!

[rickss69]

so you prefer to kick out all the "small" members and keep the BOT with only the elit?
I thought this was the case with the different leagues proposal!

Nothing elitist here zoro - Please re-read post #25...

[Mario1]

$0, HWBot Rev. 4 is gonna suck reaaaal baaaaaaaad.

[chew*]

I think I could swing $131 USD a year and sacrifice 120L ln2 a year to do so.

From the current poll though it appears to me the manufactuerers will be paying for this site and not users.

[zoro]

But anyway guys, we are benchmarking high technology products made by some great companies. How can you leave them out of it?
They also get very possitive feadback in order to implement higher efficiency products and we are all pleased by that.
I wish more companies to get involved with the good meaning of course :)
Here in my country we all believe in the "olympic spirit". The "olympic" athletes compete only to win glory, to get in the first place playing fair and square!

[rickss69]

The point of this discussion leads ultimately to the direction of this entity. Do we as a group want to continue on the same track or do we wish to seek another solution? Do the founders even want to consider another way? I suppose these questions will be answered in the bye and bye.

Most of the objections to a "pay to play" effort if you will, have just been pathetic thus far. Those in control have every right to run things as they see fit. On the other hand they must also realize that continued bucking of members concerns will only hurt them in the long term. One without the other will leave little to be desired from anyone's standpoint.

[Predator]

voted 50€

[K404]

Benching.... Jack Daniels..... benching... Jack Daniels....... I dunno bro, its tough!

[euklidis]

i would pay if i knew that companies will not interfere at all. Not even advertisments... only competitions allowed...

[zoro]

i would pay if i knew that companies will not interfere at all. Not even advertisments... only competitions allowed...

This will not going to happen and you know it :p
Get back to earth bro :D
(this is my dearest friend) ;)

[thebanik]

But anyway guys, we are benchmarking high technology products made by some great companies. How can you leave them out of it?
They also get very possitive feadback in order to implement higher efficiency products and we are all pleased by that.
I wish more companies to get involved with the good meaning of course :)
Here in my country we all believe in the "olympic spirit". The "olympic" athletes compete only to win glory, to get in the first place playing fair and square!

those companies do not have to come to hwbot to get feedback, they already have a efficient network of disbursing hardware for testing, feedback and review...
What they can get from hwbot is marketing, for that they can put big banners on all pages, even result pages and give money for those banners....
Again I dont think hwbot is/would charge from all users, but it should be some sort of privileged based, like more than 50-100 submission. If someone has got money to bench 10 different hardware, he/she can easily spend money equivalent to 1 of that hardware to keep their favourite site alive the way they want it.

[jmke]

easy to calculate Massman, extract a list of all members who post scores to this site at least 1 score per week.
that is your active membership where potentially you could expect subscription money from; take 30% of that number; multiply by €10/year and you have a number to work with ;)

I voted €0
I'm not an active bencher, I post benchmarks for the team score if possible;

[geobot24]

I would like to know if will happen the outcome of the poll or what suits the crew of hwbot...:p

Something tells me, that isnt only for hwbot's maintenance. It just a database with scores and if hwbot needed money could easily
be given by the sponsors already exist...;)

[cyclone]

Those "thousands of so-so interested" guys are the problem cyclone. In effect, what have you lost if every one of them disappeared? Pardon me if I seem harsh and pragmatic...we are not talking submissions here, but support of a site.I would lost some competition spirit. HWBOT would also lost a big part of the database (users/results) which definitely does its business when self-promoting and talking to partners (compare: 'pros - 3000 active overclockers' and 'pros - 2000 active clockers')
It would influence the possible income/support of a site, just in another way. So.. think widely & wisely -)

[dinos22]

leave it free it will ruin it i think

[Thor941]

Is there a business plan?
How much do you need each year to keep the site going?

[Turrican]

Is there a business plan?
How much do you need each year to keep the site going?

http://www.hwbot.org/forum/showpost.php?p=71752&postcount=416

[Thor941]

well +/- 2000 members who have 50 points minimum, 10 € each, you got already 20 K€

10€ per year should be "nothing" for them to get a ranking in their favorite hobby

[Splave]

I voted 25 but donated 50 :)
hope it helps

[Sweet]

Running costs are up to 35.000 euro for HWBOT a year (*), FYI. So even if a 1000 members would say yes to a subscription fee (which I highly doubt), the fee would be steep.

(*) and this is without the cost of development and design, only to keep te site running.

extremely interesting and very expensive.

to think about this, I hope more comments and thoughts of all :cool:

Unfortunately, I must say that the payment can significantly reduce the participation of many Latin Americans, so I think before desided, many friends and colleagues can be left out

Sw

[der8auer]

Voted 100€. There are so much ppl paying 12€ each month for playing World of Warcraft. I play HWBot and would pay the same :D :)

[zabit]

NO tengo un SOPE !!!

[nazzgul]

In Argentina, €5 are five times the local money. It's not fair. I vote €0, but I can donate €5 anually.

[richba5tard]

extremely interesting and very expensive.

to think about this, I hope more comments and thoughts of all :cool:

Unfortunately, I must say that the payment can significantly reduce the participation of many Latin Americans, so I think before desided, many friends and colleagues can be left out

Sw

I can lower running cost by +- 2000 euro a year once our contract with the current hosting company ends, but this does not have a major impact on the total running cost.

Fact is that if you want to run such a site seriously, you can not do it in spare time. We all have to pay for food and have a roof above our head, also the people working full time on HWBOT. To pay a legal minimum wage in Belgium, you need approx 30.000 euro revenue a year.

I've been working for +5 year on HWBOT for free, and have invested 50.000 euro to get it up to a professional level. I don't mind that. Our business plan is to have manufacturers pay for the advertising and competitions they hold on HWBOT, and the business plan has proven to be sufficient to cover running costs. My goal is not to become rich with HWBOT (in the contrary, if I would spend my freelance time on other projects I would have earned money instead of loosing it), nor is it the goal of Massman (he would earn more washing dishes) or the rest of the crew (doing it completely free). What does hurt us a lot, is that everytime we make a revision change suggestion we get labeled as money hungry corporate sell outs. : / For f*ck sake, we work hard and are widely used, don't we deserve a minimal income? Do you think hosting companies, designers, accountants, coders, etc all work for free?

That said, I strongly believe HWBOT should remain free for members. Our business plan is to have manufacturers pay for advertising and use of HWBOT, not the members. It has worked pretty well, and see no reason to change as long as manufacturers do not ask us to "bend over".

I voted 50.000 euro, as that's what I've spent so far.

[Eeky NoX]

Well atmo I could donate 10€/year, but who knows, if my situation changes (and so my addiction ^^) if I improve my ranking, I should surely give 10x what I actually can ;)

[Mario1]

But anyway guys, we are benchmarking high technology products made by some great companies. How can you leave them out of it?
They also get very possitive feadback in order to implement higher efficiency products and we are all pleased by that.
I wish more companies to get involved with the good meaning of course :)
Here in my country we all believe in the "olympic spirit". The "olympic" athletes compete only to win glory, to get in the first place playing fair and square!

Oh so HWbot pays those "great companies" so people could bench with their products, eh?
Actually the companies pay to HWBot so they could be partners, make OC contests and off course advertise their products by doing so.
A lot of people are disappointed with Rev 4 coming, because of that dumb team point calculation thing, H2O and air cooling using guys can't contribute to the team, because only the best submission will yeld boints... soo dice, LN2 and LHe would be useful if you want to contribute something...
What should I pay for - HWBot or dice/LN2 ???

[websmile]

I would have no problem in paying 10 bucks, maybe 20 a year-I appreciate your work here, know it costs a lot of time and server costs won´t be cheap as well- and looking at curious results like I saw recently here costs a lot of time and needs manpower- I don´t think we can have all of that for nothing;)- who really cares about this platform will be willing to pay a fair amount

[SF3D]

I can lower running cost by +- 2000 euro a year once our contract with the current hosting company ends, but this does not have a major impact on the total running cost.

Fact is that if you want to run such a site seriously, you can not do it in spare time. We all have to pay for food and have a roof above our head, also the people working full time on HWBOT. To pay a legal minimum wage in Belgium, you need approx 30.000 euro revenue a year.

I've been working for +5 year on HWBOT for free, and have invested 50.000 euro to get it up to a professional level. I don't mind that. Our business plan is to have manufacturers pay for the advertising and competitions they hold on HWBOT, and the business plan has proven to be sufficient to cover running costs. My goal is not to become rich with HWBOT (in the contrary, if I would spend my freelance time on other projects I would have earned money instead of loosing it), nor is it the goal of Massman (he would earn more washing dishes) or the rest of the crew (doing it completely free). What does hurt us a lot, is that everytime we make a revision change suggestion we get labeled as money hungry corporate sell outs. : / For f*ck sake, we work hard and are widely used, don't we deserve a minimal income? Do you think hosting companies, designers, accountants, coders, etc all work for free?

That said, I strongly believe HWBOT should remain free for members. Our business plan is to have manufacturers pay for advertising and use of HWBOT, not the members. It has worked pretty well, and see no reason to change as long as manufacturers do not ask us to "bend over".

I voted 50.000 euro, as that's what I've spent so far.

I think people should read this post from Frederik with a thought. Thanks for posting this!

[Warrior_oF_Byte]

up tp 10eur here. :)

But like RB said, I'd like that the bot still remains free.

[websmile]

@SF3D I read this post and I understand it- but I also read and understood that one of the main reasons for killing the team-ranking( I cannot see this otherwise with the new paln) is the lack of manpower to look at results and discover cheats like hardwaresharing- of course I´d like to stay HWBot a free platform but if the money for better control is needed and the team ranking stays as it is now, encouraging a lot of small benchers to become part of teams and/or stay at the bot I would accept this- compared to the money spent for hardware by the members the 10 or 20 bucks would be less than peanuts;)

[Mario1]

I think people should read this post from Frederik with a thought. Thanks for posting this!

Sounds like a plan, companies earn a sh!t load of money advertising in here, because they could sponsor somebody and sell 200,000 products using his name...
So if richba5tard raises the partnership cost we'll all be happy.
He'll hopefully have enough money and we won't have to pay anything.
I'm on for people donating money, but not everyone has PayPal or even a debit/credit card.

[TheKarmakazi]

I think as has been stated by others that a "Membership Fee" is a completely fair and logical thing. Allow users to sign up for free but maybe they have a lower hwboint cap, or can only have 15 submissions per benchmark, or some other restriction. Then the casual users can remain free and they dont quit the site, and the active members can support the site they love and use so often. I voted for 25euro/year but would pay more if necessary.

[TheMadDutchDude]

Up to €25 a year. I'd offer up to €50 but that's a little much for me with my current income.

[Sweet]

I can lower running cost by +- 2000 euro a year once our contract with the current hosting company ends, but this does not have a major impact on the total running cost.

Fact is that if you want to run such a site seriously, you can not do it in spare time. We all have to pay for food and have a roof above our head, also the people working full time on HWBOT. To pay a legal minimum wage in Belgium, you need approx 30.000 euro revenue a year.

I've been working for +5 year on HWBOT for free, and have invested 50.000 euro to get it up to a professional level. I don't mind that. Our business plan is to have manufacturers pay for the advertising and competitions they hold on HWBOT, and the business plan has proven to be sufficient to cover running costs. My goal is not to become rich with HWBOT (in the contrary, if I would spend my freelance time on other projects I would have earned money instead of loosing it), nor is it the goal of Massman (he would earn more washing dishes) or the rest of the crew (doing it completely free). What does hurt us a lot, is that everytime we make a revision change suggestion we get labeled as money hungry corporate sell outs. : / For f*ck sake, we work hard and are widely used, don't we deserve a minimal income? Do you think hosting companies, designers, accountants, coders, etc all work for free?

That said, I strongly believe HWBOT should remain free for members. Our business plan is to have manufacturers pay for advertising and use of HWBOT, not the members. It has worked pretty well, and see no reason to change as long as manufacturers do not ask us to "bend over".

I voted 50.000 euro, as that's what I've spent so far.

Thanks for the info RB., For me, was more than necessary to understand the magnitude of the problem and the need for this change.

Me personally, I have thought about what I'm going to vote, so I participated in several post on this and other topics
Hwbot Because I care, I also care Overclocking development in Latin America, of course
Later vote, according to information given

Thanks again for sharing this information.:)
Regards

Sw

P.S: Was not my intention, at any time to question anything, just need information for all desided.
I never said it was for someone to fill with money, was not my way.
I care Hwbot and Oc. besides the good treatment that I have always been on the site.

[Ol'Bud]

You guys over in Europe have to clarify something for those of us on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean;
You use commas instead of periods and periods instead of commas when posting number amounts.
Did you really mean that you had spent/voted for $50,000.00,Mr.Colardyn?
or maybe it was $50,000.00Euros?

Can you clarify that?

[der8auer]

A dot here in europe "does not count" 50.000€ = 50000€ = fifty-thousand euros

[MaJ0r]

I think as has been stated by others that a "Membership Fee" is a completely fair and logical thing. Allow users to sign up for free but maybe they have a lower hwboint cap, or can only have 15 submissions per benchmark, or some other restriction. Then the casual users can remain free and they dont quit the site, and the active members can support the site they love and use so often. I voted for 25euro/year but would pay more if necessary.

Oh no. Bad idea. Half ex-USSR with this way left out hwbot.org

[Massman]

FYI.

HWBOT tries to also involved new projects like the Unigine benchmark. All the time that goes into that kind of project also costs time and money. Even if we manage to get break-even with membership fees, which is highely unlikely, we'd still have no budget to take on other projects.

[True Monkey]

Voted 100€

Or 10% in Euros of my points

[Hollywood]

Votet 100€.

[Chiller]

I also donate already every year once.

Because i know what a work it is with this site and the bot, and owner is a belgium guy.

Heil to belgium, Heil to richba5tard . :-)

[der8auer]

I can lower running cost by +- 2000 euro a year once our contract with the current hosting company ends, but this does not have a major impact on the total running cost.

Fact is that if you want to run such a site seriously, you can not do it in spare time. We all have to pay for food and have a roof above our head, also the people working full time on HWBOT. To pay a legal minimum wage in Belgium, you need approx 30.000 euro revenue a year.

I've been working for +5 year on HWBOT for free, and have invested 50.000 euro to get it up to a professional level. I don't mind that. Our business plan is to have manufacturers pay for the advertising and competitions they hold on HWBOT, and the business plan has proven to be sufficient to cover running costs. My goal is not to become rich with HWBOT (in the contrary, if I would spend my freelance time on other projects I would have earned money instead of loosing it), nor is it the goal of Massman (he would earn more washing dishes) or the rest of the crew (doing it completely free). What does hurt us a lot, is that everytime we make a revision change suggestion we get labeled as money hungry corporate sell outs. : / For f*ck sake, we work hard and are widely used, don't we deserve a minimal income? Do you think hosting companies, designers, accountants, coders, etc all work for free?

That said, I strongly believe HWBOT should remain free for members. Our business plan is to have manufacturers pay for advertising and use of HWBOT, not the members. It has worked pretty well, and see no reason to change as long as manufacturers do not ask us to "bend over".

I voted 50.000 euro, as that's what I've spent so far.

Thanks for this statement!

Maybe you should have written this at the first posting of rev4. Think that a lot of ppl wouldn't post such sad comments then :/

Keep on the good work!

[Chiller]

Thanks for this statement!

Maybe you should have written this at the first posting of rev4. Think that a lot of ppl wouldn't post such sad comments then :/

Keep on the good work!

i agree, and is a nice statement

[TheKarmakazi]

FYI.

HWBOT tries to also involved new projects like the Unigine benchmark. All the time that goes into that kind of project also costs time and money. Even if we manage to get break-even with membership fees, which is highely unlikely, we'd still have no budget to take on other projects.

Well I am not advocating a solely user-base supported revenue stream. I think you should get revenue from the manufactureres too who sponsor contests and use the database as a internal tool. Also get money from the advertisers.

Also perhaps ask the community for a few extra volunteers to police the submissions and deal with reported scores. Even a few extra hands could help relieve the workload and free up massman to pursue better issues. The score moderation could be done completely by knowledgable volunteers I think. Let mass man who is being paid work on other things that volunteers would not have the time to do.

[uncle fester]

I really do not see an issue with the proposed changes and this seems like knee jerk reaction to what half the people were saying in the rev 4 changes, people do not like change and opinions are like arseholes everyone has them :)
Keep up the good work Massman and hwbot crew :)
________
2007 Lexus Cup Specifications (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/2007_Lexus_Cup)

[Massman]

The moderating thing is already off my schedule.

The idea of getting user revenue was to get an HWBOT without manufacturer support (as suggested by BazX). Having both would maybe make sense from a pure business point of view, but as Frederik already stated we prefer to leave everything for free for the community.

[rickss69]

The moderating thing is already off my schedule.

The idea of getting user revenue was to get an HWBOT without manufacturer support (as suggested by BazX). Having both would maybe make sense from a pure business point of view, but as Frederik already stated we prefer to leave everything for free for the community.

Then this poll was a complete and utter waste of time...surprise, surprise.

[Gamer]

I donated € 50 this year, and would do it again next year.
Not for the use of this site (I would hate it for obvious reasons) only because I support the crew and the time they invest in this.

[Thor941]

ATM what's the amount of donations per year?

[richba5tard]

Between 300 and 500 euro in the past year if I had to guess.

[Thor941]

ouch

[richba5tard]

FYI I bought the prizes of last years HWBOT Country Cup using all the donation money we received between 2005-2009 (9 kingpin cooling pots), so it's not as if it is even used to cover hosting / wages. It went right back to the community. :D

[Bobnova]

I voted 25, i figure that's probably about $40 or so, which i can do.
Much past that and it starts eating into my dry ice fund, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I think a large part of why people are so up in arms about corporate sponsors is that there have been some excellent examples of sponsors running the business.
Semiaccurate (guess!) and fudzilla (flip side of the semiaccute coin) are excellent examples.
Given those examples i can totally understand why people are afraid of HWB taking on major corporate sponsorship.

[|ron]

I speak for the hwproject team, I voted 200euros because we are roughly 10/20 active members.
We don't have a lot of money but giving 10euros each per year is something we can definitely afford.. maybe more, but I didn't want to shoot too high without being 100% sure :)

[Hyperhorn]

Voted 50 €
Had to spend about 120 € just at the customs today and had some other expenses lately, so I just did sent out a lower amount today. But anyway it is at least *something* and it wasn´t the last time either ...

[OC Maximus]

Voted €25 and I'm completely new to HWBOT.

[Sweet]

After thinking and considered , I voted for 25 Euros (my keyboard does not have the symbol E)
It's simple, I care about this site .......... Hwbot :)

@Massman , RB must froze your salary, for the next 3 years :D:D:D:D

chers

:DSw

[OC Maximus]

my keyboard does not have the symbol E

Just copy/paste :)

[Sweet]

Just copy/paste :)

my keyboard and my pocket, now.....must not know my wife :D

Thanks

Sw

[steponz]

Why not entice users to signup for a premium account? Give them more cool to have features instead of a membership... this way members can choose to upgrade...

You could offer a variety of features..

Ill upgrade no matter what to support the site... I just enjoy this too much. ;)

[OC Maximus]

Why not entice users to signup for a premium account? Give them more cool to have features instead of a membership... this way members can choose to upgrade...

You could offer a variety of features..

That would make too much sense.

[Freakezoit]

I voted for 50€/Year ;)

[packet]

opinions are like arseholes everyone has them :)
Keep up the good work Massman and hwbot crew :)

:) awesome

[uncle fester]

The thing you all seem to not be realizing as soon as you start charging the end user and attaching a fee is when the whole thing starts getting complicated and as people have pointed out as soon as people start paying for a service they think they have more of right to complain because their submission isn't getting processed fast enough or some crap and im sure ill hear people complain and think suddenly hwbot is a democracy and the their say should mean more because they pay for it - The worst thing will be is some dick will say massman i pay your wages listen to me !!!!!

Guys let Massman make the decisions on what funds hwbot and how the staff like to run it. If you do not like the the ideas in rev.4 unlucky it will apply to everyone so it is not like they are persecuting just you, be happy that hwbot brings manufacturers to the table with prizes for you too win :)

I personally voted no i will not pay a subscription this should always be covered by manufacturers we are doing an arseload of advertising on here for them they should be the ones paying for this honour. Everyone wanted manufacturers backing and now everyone is complaining and saying lets make it user funded.

Its not that i dont think massman deserves my money i would happily pay him for his hard work, its who knows for how long Massman will be running hwbot and in we start paying a subsciption like all things it will go up as inflation raises, i trust massman to not do that but who knows im sure if the hwbot staff got an offer for a couple of million dollars they would have hard time justifying reasons to not sell.

With every change everyone complains.
________
MERCURY BROUGHAM PICTURE (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Mercury_Brougham)

[Brolloks]

FYI, I voted €5000.

This poll will just confirm what I mentioned before: user donations can give us a nice little bonus, but will not be enough to cover costs.

Paid by your sponsors I'm sure

[fatguy1992]

I would have voted upto 50, however after reading through the rev4 stuff I think its time I find something else to do.

[Massman]

Paid by your sponsors I'm sure

http://www.emotty.com/images/emoticons/709-495.gif

[zoro]

The thing you all seem to not be realizing as soon as you start charging the end user and attaching a fee is when the whole thing starts getting complicated and as people have pointed out as soon as people start paying for a service they think they have more of right to complain because their submission isn't getting processed fast enough or some crap and im sure ill hear people complain and think suddenly hwbot is a democracy and the their say should mean more because they pay for it - The worst thing will be is some dick will say massman i pay your wages listen to me !!!!!

Guys let Massman make the decisions on what funds hwbot and how the staff like to run it. If you do not like the the ideas in rev.4 unlucky it will apply to everyone so it is not like they are persecuting just you, be happy that hwbot brings manufacturers to the table with prizes for you too win :)

I personally voted no i will not pay a subscription this should always be covered by manufacturers we are doing an arseload of advertising on here for them they should be the ones paying for this honour. Everyone wanted manufacturers backing and now everyone is complaining and saying lets make it user funded.

Its not that i dont think massman deserves my money i would happily pay him for his hard work, its who knows for how long Massman will be running hwbot and in we start paying a subsciption like all things it will go up as inflation raises, i trust massman to not do that but who knows im sure if the hwbot staff got an offer for a couple of million dollars they would have hard time justifying reasons to not sell.

With every change everyone complains.

+1 :)

I calculate the results so far. (i left the 5000 out of equation for obvious reasons)
18x5 = 90e
38x10 = 380e
32x25 = 800e
17x50 = 850e
6x100 = 600e
result = 2450e
What was last years donation? 500e!? What is so far the donation rate?
I get the impression that some people loved to be forced in order to do something
than out of free will and that scared me :)

[wrcooper66]

Just donated 10 Euros. I am new and just realized I am just another deadbeat using the system. I really appreciate hwbot and can pass on a few beers to keep us playing !! Whatever you guys decide -- count me in.

[Leeghoofd]

Then this poll was a complete and utter waste of time...surprise, surprise.

This thread probably has been created to enlighten the ones that suggested donating :

1) It costs a lot of money to keep this site running
2) With private fundings form the members you will NEVER be able to pay for all of that... as almost half of the voters does NOT want to pay a single dollar/euro...

So how on earth do you pay a part of the costs ? Manufacturer sponsorship with banners, competitions etc...

[Mean Machine]

I'm not really interested enough to pay anything for someone to be able to make money out of my results if they present them in the right way. I mean, it's basically an endless source of overclocking stats, a database of results to which I submit my scores for free for the fun of it, in the end you may use it for statistics and attract sponsors. If someone's going to charge me for it, I sure won't be here anymore. The only reason I submit scores right now is for the fun of it, I don't take it seriously.

I might sound a bit egoistic, but I don't exactly feel this is something I can't do without, but that's my point of view.

[bazx]

The thing you all seem to not be realizing as soon as you start charging the end user and attaching a fee is when the whole thing starts getting complicated and as people have pointed out as soon as people start paying for a service they think they have more of right to complain because their submission isn't getting processed fast enough or some crap and im sure ill hear people complain and think suddenly hwbot is a democracy and the their say should mean more because they pay for it - The worst thing will be is some dick will say massman i pay your wages listen to me !!!!!

Guys let Massman make the decisions on what funds hwbot and how the staff like to run it. If you do not like the the ideas in rev.4 unlucky it will apply to everyone so it is not like they are persecuting just you, be happy that hwbot brings manufacturers to the table with prizes for you too win :)

I personally voted no i will not pay a subscription this should always be covered by manufacturers we are doing an arseload of advertising on here for them they should be the ones paying for this honour. Everyone wanted manufacturers backing and now everyone is complaining and saying lets make it user funded.

Its not that i dont think massman deserves my money i would happily pay him for his hard work, its who knows for how long Massman will be running hwbot and in we start paying a subsciption like all things it will go up as inflation raises, i trust massman to not do that but who knows im sure if the hwbot staff got an offer for a couple of million dollars they would have hard time justifying reasons to not sell.

With every change everyone complains.

you would rather lay on your back and let gigabyte tickle your belly then pay for this service?

[Massman]

It's sad that there's still no other alternative. I think you're making wrong assumptions when you say it's either:

- no money, no problems
- mfc money, bend over

There's no:

- mfc money, work together

I also hope you can print money, Baz, because it must come from somewhere and wherever it's coming from, you are bending over for it.

[OC Maximus]

Looks to me that more people are willing to pay/donate than not.

OCM

[stealth]

Voted "0" euro, not because i can't afford to give 10-20 euros but because isn't fair for a lot of guys, in some countries 10 or 20 euros is a month wages. Also there are many young guys in here and maybe they can't afford to pay and i think we shouldn't push them out of the community.

Hwbot must be free for every person on the world.

stealth

[TerraRaptor]

Voted 5 e/y but the main problem is PayPal. I can afford something like 25-50 euro/year, but using more common to exUSSR payment system like Webmoney or something like that.
For those saying "As you can afford so much hardware, so u can then afford a "10EUR" ticket to hwbot" - I haven't actually paid for any hardware benched - everything in my profile was benched free of charge (work, friends, my home pc, etc).

[vento1]

Never realised the site got so little from its members, you could perhaps charge a subscription to each team say 10e per active bench member then it would be upto that team to get there money back from there members. Just a thought on improving funding.

[bazx]

Voted "0" euro, not because i can't afford to give 10-20 euros but because isn't fair for a lot of guys, in some countries 10 or 20 euros is a month wages. Also there are many young guys in here and maybe they can't afford to pay and i think we shouldn't push them out of the community.

Hwbot must be free for every person on the world.

stealth

in country's where there is genuine hardship hwbot could exempt them from subscription

[cowgut]

20-50 euro yearly(in 3 payments)

[uncle fester]

you would rather lay on your back and let gigabyte tickle your belly then pay for this service?

LMAO, how is gigabyte tickling my belly at the moment or how have they ever, i have no idea where you get your ideas ???

I am not going to pay a subscription because my results are advertising for the manufacturers they should be the one's paying or are you saying you want to tickle their bellies at your expense ????

If you actually bothered to read my post you would see im more than happy to pay Massman & his crew for their efforts. But i will in no way support free advertising for manufacturer's. Which in the end of the day is exactly what you are suggesting.
________
Ferrari 330 specifications (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Ferrari_330)

[bazx]

LMAO, how is gigabyte tickling my belly at the moment or how have they ever, i have no idea where you get your ideas ???

I am not going to pay a subscription because my results are advertising for the manufacturers they should be the one's paying or are you saying you want to tickle their bellies at your expense ????

If you actually bothered to read my post you would see im more than happy to pay Massman & his crew for their efforts. But i will in no way support free advertising for manufacturer's. Which in the end of the day is exactly what you are suggesting.

so you have nothing personal to gain from rev 4

you wont join a team sponsored by gigabyte to compete in a new supper league

i might have misunderstood some of your posts so will apologise now if that's the case

[uncle fester]

so you have nothing personal to gain from rev 4

you wont join a team sponsored by gigabyte to compete in a new supper league

i might have misunderstood some of your posts so will apologise now if that's the case

I did not know i had to join a sponsored team to participate in the top league as i read it anyone can volunteer into this area if you have proven the skills.
I will be volunteering to join under no manufacturers " team " but as an end user.
I am not going to limit myself to 1 manufacture's hardware.
________
HOTELS IN MEXICO (http://mexicohoteles.org)

[Sweet]

I strongly believe HWBOT should remain free for members

People, sorry for the intrusion, RB has already given its opinion on the members who could not afford to pay the subscription.
and this is the way.
Read this post:
http://hwbot.org/forum/showpost.php?p=71825&postcount=49

It is well known that the crisis economies have seriously harmed people's purchasing power and we all live with these problems, including Hwbot.
In Argentina (In Latinoamérica in Gral.), we are masters of crisis, we have survived more than 6 (six as few...xD)

This problem ($$$$) is for many, the most important

For everyone:
Please stop with the accusations, without content or evidence, to Massman, the admin. or an individual, to express ideas without aggression, That's the right way among civilized people., here and everywhere
Please, stop this, many would be very, very grateful.

Humbly, Thank to all, from Buenos Aires - Argentina - Latin America

Regards

Sw

Ps: FYI, Here in Buenos Aires, a 980x cost 1550 - 1600 US, like one mainboard REX III (x58) cost + 550 US, mem. Corsair Dominator GT 3x2 + 500 US.... Nvidia 480 GTX + 800 US, besides have to find who sells it, besides average annual salary here is U$S 6000

[IvTK]

Looks wild. I'm risking my hardware, which bought on my money and must additionally pay for this? Unbelievable!
Overclocking is very popular among young people. In my country pupils and students practically have no "spare" money. I think no more than 30-40 overclockers (20%) in Ukraine are ready to pay ANY money for HWBot. Ex-USSR overclockers will return to over-s.ru database where there no strict moderation but charge free.

And finally sponsor ads and PR-contests will have no marketing efficiency ;)

[stealth]

in country's where there is genuine hardship hwbot could exempt them from subscription

Lets say this can be arranged...

Some second thoughts... i understand the difficulties hwbot faces but how good is for the community to make hwbot a club you need to pay to get in?

Also think about this... we pay for the hardware, we spend so much time to run the hardware and get the best we can out of it, then we upload the results in here... telling everybody what these products are capable for. Should we pay for promoting and advertising their products is well?

stealth

[Gomeler]

The problem is you are paying wages to an individual when you have no venture funding, no golden egg at the end of the road such as an acquisition or an IPO and a very fickle source of income based on advertising. In short you are hemorrhaging money with only a bandaid to patch it up. Time to make a change or pimp out hwbot. Leverage alternative forms of income such as affiliate links, targeted advertising, and charge manufacturers to use your service(I hope you guys are charging to host the competitions..). There won't be a major pipeline of money feeding into this thing, you guys need to establish several small revenue streams.

I am no expert and I don't have any details on hwbot's cashflow but given the numbers you have mentioned for operating costs and from what I can gather nearly non-existent income I recognize a need for a money tree.

[richba5tard]

I am no expert and I don't have any details on hwbot's cashflow but given the numbers you have mentioned for operating costs and from what I can gather nearly non-existent income I recognize a need for a money tree.

Erh, you misread/misunderstand. :) We have a business plan (manufacturer and regional partnerships), and it's working sufficiently to cover running costs. HWBOT runs ± break-even since rev3. Only problem we have is that we have insufficient income to cover development and design, which is a cost that I cover personally.

[Ol'Bud]

Erh, you misread/misunderstand. :) We have a business plan (manufacturer and regional partnerships), and it's working sufficiently to cover running costs. HWBOT runs ± break-even since rev3. Only problem we have is that we have insufficient income to cover development and design, which is a cost that I cover personally.


That's good news.
Thank you for that information,Sir.

[thebanik]

Edited.........

[Freakezoit]

Oky i payed 50€ this day for Hwbot , so keep up your good work Guys

[Aleslammer]

As a hobby I voted up to fifty, nothing wrong with membership fees/dues but in realism how many of the members would of signed up if there was a fee imposed.

If it was related to my income that's another thing.

I did try to donate last month but backed away when I had to use PayPal, nothing against the service just another thing to keep track of and a true lack of knowledge on the service

[maverik-sg1]

Is HWBOT a business?

If it is a business (I assumed this is what it morphed into), then where are the current revenues generated? if they are generated by advertising from businesses who's target audience are the people in the community - why would u ask the community to contribute?

'share options' available as an investment rather than a donation (which is another word for blindly giving out money and trust it gets invested into the business) would be the way to go I feel - you guys a building an enterprise and you have growth plans, growth plans are not there to be financed by the community - the community is your lever (your unique selling point) to get out there and attract other revenue streams to the business.

Maybe you should apply to go on 'Dragon's Den'? :)

[Massman]

Is HWBOT a business?

If it is a business (I assumed this is what it morphed into), then where are the current revenues generated? if they are generated by advertising from businesses who's target audience are the people in the community - why would u ask the community to contribute?

I think to summarise I would need to understand the business model, the current overheads (how much does it cost to run, where does the money go, can any savings be made....etc...) and future plans of the HWBOT or if indeed there are 'share options' available as an investment rather than a donation (which is another word for blindly giving out money and trust it gets invested into the business), before I could consider answering the poll question.

This poll was to display that it's not possible for HWBOT to cover the basic running costs with community input only and therefore have to rely on manufacturers and other sources to generate the income needed to cover costs. If if we wanted to force the community to pay, which we don't, it wouldn't be enough.

RichBa5tard's posts should make things more clear:

I can lower running cost by +- 2000 euro a year once our contract with the current hosting company ends, but this does not have a major impact on the total running cost.

Fact is that if you want to run such a site seriously, you can not do it in spare time. We all have to pay for food and have a roof above our head, also the people working full time on HWBOT. To pay a legal minimum wage in Belgium, you need approx 30.000 euro revenue a year.

I've been working for +5 year on HWBOT for free, and have invested 50.000 euro to get it up to a professional level. I don't mind that. Our business plan is to have manufacturers pay for the advertising and competitions they hold on HWBOT, and the business plan has proven to be sufficient to cover running costs. My goal is not to become rich with HWBOT (in the contrary, if I would spend my freelance time on other projects I would have earned money instead of loosing it), nor is it the goal of Massman (he would earn more washing dishes) or the rest of the crew (doing it completely free). What does hurt us a lot, is that everytime we make a revision change suggestion we get labeled as money hungry corporate sell outs. : / For f*ck sake, we work hard and are widely used, don't we deserve a minimal income? Do you think hosting companies, designers, accountants, coders, etc all work for free?

That said, I strongly believe HWBOT should remain free for members. Our business plan is to have manufacturers pay for advertising and use of HWBOT, not the members. It has worked pretty well, and see no reason to change as long as manufacturers do not ask us to "bend over".

I voted 50.000 euro, as that's what I've spent so far.

Erh, you misread/misunderstand. :) We have a business plan (manufacturer and regional partnerships), and it's working sufficiently to cover running costs. HWBOT runs ± break-even since rev3. Only problem we have is that we have insufficient income to cover development and design, which is a cost that I cover personally.

[knopflerbruce]

Perhaps giving some decent advantages to people who support the bot financially is a good idea?

[richba5tard]

I think there should be a big disclaimer on this thread that we are in no way planning to charge for our service. The poll was merely created upon community request, to see whether it's feasible to run on donations or not.

I think it's very clear now that it's not a workable business plan.

[jmke]

Maybe you should apply to go on 'Dragon's Den'? :)

those oldies would not understand a word of what HWbot is about :D

[K404]

I think there should be a big disclaimer on this thread that we are in no way planning to charge for our service. The poll was merely created upon community request, to see whether it's feasible to run on donations or not.

I think it's very clear now that it's not a workable business plan.

Well... the majority are happy to pay :p I'm guessing the sums don't add up for HWB though? :(

[Massman]

To offer those who want to help HWBOT with financial contributions we've set up a new donation system. The idea is that if you make a donation, you know what the donation is used for exactly.

http://hwbot.org/article/news/help_hwbot_development_through_pledgie