The official HWBOT Country Cup 2010 thread.

[SteveRo]

how about adding a pcmark stage - either 05 or pcmv?

[StrategosSan]

how about adding a pcmark stage - either 05 or pcmv?

I agree with SteveRo :D

[Dreadlockyx]

I take care of Reference Clock stage. =D

[Massman]

how about adding a pcmark stage - either 05 or pcmv?

We definitly considered either one of the benchmarks, but in the end decided not to. The reason is that both benchmarks are too storage dependant, which would require people to either spend a lot of money on the hardware required or just share the storage setup.

The idea of this competition is that people with different setups can bench for to push their country and at the same time keeping the cost as low as possible.

[saint19]

This looks good, I can't wait to enter. I think that this is a good opportunity to me for enter in a contest that doesn't need high end components :)

[Massman]

!! Important note !!

Competition scheme adjusted slightly; each stage lasts 15/16 days - last stage starts when first stage ends.

[saint19]

:) I need wait until January 10, Why only core clock for AMD?

[_0CooL_]

it's time for the first stage ;)


edit : local time is not french time ;)

[mkultra]

After all, the ranking is not based on a single submission but on the average of top-3 submissions per country.
what if there's only 1 score from a Country?

[knopflerbruce]

I would think that score is divided by three then: (xxx + 0 + 0)/3 = xxx/3.

[mkultra]

so the countries with less OCers gets it in the a$$???

and how the "must use different hardware" rule is applied?

let's say in stage 1 there's:

2x 580
4x 480
1x 5770

final results would be with(best 580+best 480+5770)/3=final score?

[Massman]

what if there's only 1 score from a Country?

That means one person needs to motivate two other people to bench as well ;)


so the countries with less OCers gets it in the a$$???

and how the "must use different hardware" rule is applied?

let's say in stage 1 there's:

2x 580
4x 480
1x 5770

final results would be with(best 580+best 480+5770)/3=final score?

Correct!

[Massman]

Hm. There seems to be some bug ...

[mkultra]

lol i was gonna ask, if one individual can sumbit all 3 scores but i guess you already answered that with your score
now i need to find a canadian with either a 69XX or 570 :D, because i don't think my 5450 will help much ahahaha

[Leeghoofd]

I think the top 3 should use different hardware rule must go... I know it is intented to avoid hardware sharing, but it makes the compo a lot more complicated...and maybe less attractive... at least if you want to compete for top 3/5 spot...

Better do one user = one submit with one type of hardware

[Massman]

So, it's 'better' to have a competition where you need three people with GTX580?

[Leeghoofd]

Who has got 3 GTX 580s ? I know what you want to do or to achieve, but it's gonna be tougher than ever...

It's just the fact that many users have similar hardware in their setups (GTX 460/470/480 or 5850 or 5870)... why not letting them all count, and eg just either make an average score per card... Or if a country just has 3 scores makes an average score for the country total... lucky for them if they have GTX 580s available... too bad for the others...

[Massman]

It's just the fact that many users have similar hardware in their setups (GTX 460/470/480 or 5850 or 5870)

So, it's always possible to find 3 people with different hardware?

[Leeghoofd]

Try it, you will be dissapointed in some regions !! If you take the average per card it might motivate people to do a better effort, but you are prolly outsmarting me again :p

[Massman]

If you take average per card, you just create an atmosphere of hate towards people who just join for fun.

1. 2000p
2. 1500p
-- avg = 1750p
3. 1000p
-- avg = 1500p
4. 750p
-- avg = 1312,5

In other words: the moment someone submits a crap score, the entire average drops. Explain how this is good?

[Leeghoofd]

So we don't join for fun ? For ya negative atmosphere aspect : That's just the way it is !! Same for this : Not everyone can bench on SS or LN2 on the cards... It's the same if you can gather a 570/580 and 5970 in ya country and another country can only get a 460, 6850 and a 5770... only one option : live with it !! That's why it's country cup, not team based, nor individual PJ.. everyone can join, being it good or bad for the final outcome... think the idea is to gather scores per country not ? Just to get some more OC motivation flowing !

But you can reverse that on me and say live with my rules :p

[Massman]

?

How is it motivating to know that if you delete your submission, the average would go up and the ranking of your country would be higher?

[Leeghoofd]

Be honest : who of the "fun" benchers would think as such from the start ? Maybe they just want to contribute !! let's see what the outcome is of the first stage(s) ... I'm sceptical, as usual...

I can't do anything else for stage 1... no other DX11 cards here, let's see if we can get 3 decent results for a real average score for Belgium...

[Massman]

This is making no sense at all; I'm completely lost in what you're trying to accomplish :p.

As far as I understand, contributing to the country average is the most important thing even if it completely destroys the county average? It would be 'more fun'? What's so fun about contributing if you destroy the team's (country's) chances on winning?

[Leeghoofd]

In your point of view :
Let's take Canada : any user that has got no access to SS or more extreme cooling is no longer required to bench the GTX 480 or 580 as MK-Ultra has already set two nice scores... So what option do the rest have tht have got no access to extreme cooling ? Only thing that jumps to mind is another card to contribute. But keeping in your 70 year old mindthought : IF they want to contribute to a good score and keep up the pace MK set, they have to grab either GTX 570 or a 5970 cards to bench... If possible first let the guys with air or stock coolers contribute (just to make them feel they contributed something ) As from the moment another sub zero cooling score is posted again, it's over and done... still makes the guys that somehow contributed on air or co left out in the end...

The fun could quickly over in my opinion...

Result = everybody moves on to the next stage... what happens there, similar stuff...

[knopflerbruce]

I think it's a nice idea to have different HW, it solves GPU sharing issues in a very elegant way:D

I guess the best combo is 480/570/580...? 480's are fairly cheap second hand:) seen a few at $350 here, which is not much at all when we're talking about highend parts.

[Massman]

Ok, so it is 'more fun' to contribute and lower the country's score?

[Leeghoofd]

At least you can contribute... at first you have no idea if it's for better of for worse !! As you have got no idea how the outcome will be... you can decide in the end if your final score will lower the total much yes or no,.. it's the score algorithm that will make or break it... can you motivate yourself to post an inferior score on stock cooling, when someone else put the same card on SS or LN2 already... posting that score is useless in the current state...

If you fail to see that, then I rest my case... I'm out, no need to discuss it any longer

I think it's a nice idea to have different HW, it solves GPU sharing issues in a very elegant way:D

Think you look at it way to basic... it doesn't solve anything it makes it a bit more harder ( maybe )

[Massman]

Now you can also join the team, even if you submission doesn't help the score in a particular stage. Even if it was just to motivate the troops ...

I don't understand how 'I contributed' outweighs 'I made our score worse and the team drop in the rankings'. I would even argue that contributing a score that hurts the team average is worse for the team-spirit and promotes the desire of the individual.

Being at the side and supporting/cheering on/helping your team mates even if you don't get any personal gain out of it is, in my opinion, much more 'team spirit' than trying to get some credit for yourself (= submitting a score) and hurting the team by doing so.

[mkultra]

Leeghoofd

which overclocking competition won't end up with ln2 cooled high-ends card dominating everything?
i mean unless you restrict the cooling methods it will always end up like this


btw massman
how come belgium gets a score with only 2 GPU benched?

[Massman]

btw massman
how come belgium gets a score with only 2 GPU benched?

Small bug in the code; should be fixed soon.

[mkultra]

IC
that's the bug you were talking about

[Leeghoofd]

Leeghoofd

which overclocking competition won't end up with ln2 cooled high-ends card dominating everything?
i mean unless you restrict the cooling methods it will always end up like this

Yep, but with the use diff hardware rule, there aren't many options open, if one of the country members goes straight out and bench the bejeezus out of a card on phase or LN2... I don't see myself buying a GTX 570 or co for a single stage :p

[johnksss@say-it-loud.com]

how come i dont see my submission?

[Leeghoofd]

Your submission is there (see submission details) , but the USA still needs a 3rd score to obtain an average result. Ours (belgium) was a test score and is bugged (invalid 2 x GTX 480) :p Just to test the points algorithm...

So it's Russia in the lead !!!

[johnksss@say-it-loud.com]

it was because i wasn't even submitting it in the right place...lol
under competitions

[oanvoanc]

a question about this rule:

"In addition to last year's rules, the top-3 must use different (!) hardware."

what does hardware mean? for gpu benchmarks differenct gpus and for cpu benchmarks differenct cpus, memory benchmarks different memory?

Stage 1: Single VGA Heaven DX11-- ONLY different graphics card is needed?
Stage 2: MaxxMem LGA1366 ------- ONLY different memery is needed?
Stage 3: 3DMark03 IGP.------------ ONLY different cpu is needed?
Stage 4: SuperPI 32M LGA775------ ONLY different cpu is needed?
Stage 5: 3DMark01 un-LGA775'd---- ONLY different graphics card is needed?
Stage 6: Reference Clock AMD------ ONLY differenc cpu is needed?

thanks and good luck for everybody

[Massman]

Stage 1: Single VGA Heaven DX11-- GPU
Stage 2: MaxxMem LGA1366 ------- MEM
Stage 3: 3DMark03 IGP ------------ GPU
Stage 4: SuperPI 32M LGA775------ CPU
Stage 5: 3DMark01 un-LGA775'd---- GPU
Stage 6: Reference Clock AMD------ Mainboard

[Massman]

For those who didn't notice, the rankings are fixed!

[Monstru]

Hmm, I like this different hardware rule, it makes people find the best 3 solutions and use them, instead of using the obvious 3 x same most powerfull solution (like 3 x GTX 580 for 3 Unigine scores, now had to be done with GTX 580 and two other model VGA's). I think this is a very good addition to the competition. At this moment the only 2 things I am not very fond of are the period for the competition, and the Maxxmem which I personally really do not like, but that's just my opinion :)

[Massman]

and the Maxxmem which I personally really do not like

Hey, there has to be some way to beat Romania this year :D

[slamms]

Monstru MaxxMem is very intresting test :D Run=>Reboot Run=>Reboot Run=>Reboot )))

[Monstru]

Oh well, what can we do, let's warm up a bit :P

[NeoForce]

Ok, guys. Lets go -) Nice to see your results

[Monstru]

Nice to see Vlad's crazy Unigine too :D

[matose]

The ranking doesn't seem to take the best submission for a particular card (GTX580 for example). Maybe a bug?

[Massman]

A bug, yes. I'll have to manually force the engine to see the engine to check out the right score.

[Massman]

Pro-tip for this competition:

The engine does NOT select the best possible combination to calculate the average for you, but automatically selects the highest scores. This means the team needs to figure out what's the best combo!

http://hwbot.org/blog/wp-content//canada_oh_canada.png

Mkultra is now taking up the slot for the GTX580, which prevents FtW from using his GTX580 score to help the team or Mkultra for having his GTX480. So, if you count the scores that are being used for the competition now you get:

1952.05 - GTX580 - Mkultra
1306.54 - GTX570 - Micul
785.42 - GTX460 - Jibz
-> Average = 1348.17

Now, if Mkultra allows FTW to take the GTX580 slot by deleting his submission, the ranking becomes:

1673.49 - GTX580 - FtW
1671.63 - GTX480 - Mkultra
1306.54 - GTX570 - Micul
-> Average = 1550.55

[mkultra]

so one individual cannot have 2 score for his team?

[Massman]

You can, but it's possible you'll 'block' the way for another team member to contribute his lower score.

[Dreadlockyx]

Do laptop graphics card (9300M GS) count as IGP or does it have to be integrated to the motherboard (ex: 890GX) ?

[Massman]

Isn't the 9300M GS a separate PCB? If yes, it's not integrated

[mkultra]

ok but you said above that the engine selects the highest scores right?

highest score are:
580 =19XX
480=1671
570=1306

why does it drop the 570 run if i submit my 580 if i can submit 2 results and if it uses the highest score, the 570 run should be counted no?
sorry i'm a real PITA i know ahahahah

[Massman]

Because it's a country cup, not a user cup :)

One user can only provide one of the three submissions.

[mkultra]

well that's what i asked oi my other post...only 1 user score is counted
ok that makes more sense

[Dreadlockyx]

There was three parts (I suppose CPU, GPU and chipset), so it's not integrated. :P

[Arjan400016]

why is my score not listed in the top 3 of my country
http://hwbot.org/community/submission/1096988_arjan400016_unigine_heaven___xtreme_preset _dx11_geforce_gtx_470_1341.14_dx11_marks

[Massman]

why is my score not listed in the top 3 of my country
http://hwbot.org/community/submission/1096988_arjan400016_unigine_heaven___xtreme_preset _dx11_geforce_gtx_470_1341.14_dx11_marks

The ranking doesn't seem to take the best submission for a particular card (GTX580 for example). Maybe a bug?

Bug will be addressed ASAP! Sorry for the inconvenience :)

[FtW 420]

For Canada's scores mrtooshort entered a higher 570 score than the current 1306 this afternoon, but the scoreboard isn't updating with it.
http://hwbot.org/listResults.do?contestBenchmarkId=145&limit=200&order=user.country.name&filterBlocked=true

[Massman]

Hm.

To work around the the bug I've temporarily unlinked the scores that were causing the 'lockup' so the engine could scan the right ones and so we have the right ranking. The bug'll be fixed shortly and then we can link all scores back to the stage :).

[Massman]

You guys might want to check out the prize updates ;)

[F33L]

Go greece!

[Massman]

You might want to -again- check out the front page :)

[zoro]

mass, you are driving us crazy :p
at the end we will be devorced! :D
and still waiting for SB to be available ;)
just wonderful competition!

[placid]

please add Radeon HD 4250 as IGP. It's integrated on AMD 880G chipset

[]siNNer[]

Quick question, is 5970 accepted as single card in stage 1, even with two gpus?

[Massman]

Just went over all results for stage 1. Removed this score because the incorrect background was used:

- http://hwbot.org/community/submission/1096946_

All other scores look fine! :)

please add Radeon HD 4250 as IGP. It's integrated on AMD 880G chipset

Done.

siNNer[;88298']Quick question, is 5970 accepted as single card in stage 1, even with two gpus?

What do the rules say? :)

[Vialet]

we need more german stage 6 submissions.
with some more points germany will take first place :P

greets
Vialet

[stunned_guy]

Go Germany Go !!!!

[Monstru]

I don't suppose any of you can get romania's national television (TVR 2). In half an hour we will have a material there about Country Cup. I'll put it on YouTube next week :)

[Teemto]

Great Win Tudor for the 01 compo... gonna be a tight call to be crowned king again !!

[Monstru]

Heh, it's a team effort :)

Last stage is a bitch, yes :)

[Massman]

Romania has it in their own hands ... they just need to beat the Russians to win :)

[Monstru]

I hope we can manage that :)

[Massman]

Go! Go! Go!

[stefanovasj]

The competition ended. :)
1st place Romania
2nd Russia
and third Bulgaria.
I think it ended very nice.

[zoro]

Gongrats to the winners and all the participants for this competition!

[M3kk]

Congrats to all the participants!

[T_M]

No disrespect to the competitors, but does every single thing in this competition need to have been reported in the HWBOT News?
I mean seriously, one post linking to the latest results should have been enough.

[Massman]

No disrespect to the competitors, but does every single thing in this competition need to have been reported in the HWBOT News?

Yes. Oh yes!

[Leeghoofd]

If you guys entered every move would have been twittered...

Congratz Romania !! Well done for the runners up too :)


Freeeeeeeeeee beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer

[Massman]

The following people will be contacted for the prizes(*). Check mail soon!

Romania

1 - Matose
2 - Micutzu
3 - Monstru

Russia


1 - Smoke
2 - Slamms

Bulgaria

1 - I.nfraR.ed


(*)
- based on the weight their results determined the outcome of the competition.
- each stage we give 10-8-6-... points to the members of the country based on ranking within country
- prize for: top-3 winner, top-2 runner up and best of 2nd runner up country

[Monstru]

Thx guys :D

[T_M]

- based on the weight their results determined the outcome of the competition.


So Romania won because of Monstru? :P

[Massman]

No, all his results together helped more in the victory than, let's say, someone who only submitted one score.