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Teams within teams getting single rank.


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It's about benchbros..

http://www.hwbot.org/user.do?userId=16645

They are a team aren't they or are they a team meet up.? If I am wrong or confused then please for give me but things are a little bit a miss on this one.

Looking at this thread there are 3-4 of them..

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=219402

 

I know we haven't stopped team meets and just have owners of cards and cpu's doing scores so that's cool. But as there is more than one of them shouldn't they NOT be in the indiviual rankings as they are 6th and they are a team within a team.

 

Would be interested in the rules and regs on this one.

 

I in no way wish to offend anyone, I love your scores and posts guys but team in team or idividual.?

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I dont ever want to knock the community and team spirit side of benching but the idea is open to abuse. Would HWB ever step in if things went too far?

 

Would it be wise to put some guidelines in place now?

 

I dont want to see the biggest "conglomerates" take over the leaderboards

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Benchbros is a team of three people (iirc) that always bench together. None of these folks have another account at hwbot.

 

I don't really see the problem other than it's not an individual account?

 

It opens the door to allow mini-teams enter the individual rankings. Fugger and Vince could join forces for XS for example.... or Baz, Paul + Thicky for BTUK. OPB+ Joe on OCX.... Stummer and No-Name for AF.

 

HWB has a team ranking and an individual ranking. I believe there should be hard lines drawn.

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1. 829.10 sacha35 United Kingdom Bench Tec UK

2. 720.30 jabski

3. 531.20 Barron_Greenback

4. 498.40 Bustah

 

 

so if we combine this part of our team we will still have the same amount of points

 

but will be above king pin in the single ranks and be allowed to share all the hardware within this group as they only count as one

 

is that ok

Edited by bazx
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Of course not, BazX. First of all, you'd still have the limit of 300 hardware points: combining accounts won't remove that. Second, one account still gets ONE score per global benchmark. It doesn't matter how much top scores you have, only one counts.

 

Next to that, your personal accounts would be deleted; so you wouldn't help the team either.

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so i could still create smaller teams form within my team that say only have 100pt each

 

and they would be able to share there hardware

 

this would save them some money as sharing would be OK within the new groups

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and you could also photoshop all your screenshots, copy them from others, lend hardware from others, overclocking using LN2 you stole from a truck, cheat your way into the rankings and so forth.

 

I think Bazx was asking the question as its a valid one, He wasnt asking if its ok to cheat.

 

3 guys benching under one account cant be right however you look at it? simply because one guy benching in His own right is competing against three [as one] in this case surely the points should be distributed between the three so that they are in a team 1st and benching in their own right second?

 

Otherwise the point Baz is making is this example is wide open to abuse, no one is suggesting anyone is cheating. The fair thing here would be to define proper guidelines otherwise large teams will just start creating 'mini' teams to bump up their rankings and to legitimately share hardware? after all I cant go to a team mates house and use His hw to bench in my name but this group apparantly can. this is not about this group its about fairness and even ground.

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so i could still create smaller teams form within my team that say only have 100pt each

 

and they would be able to share there hardware

 

this would save them some money as sharing would be OK within the new groups

 

No, you can't. If you want to bench like they did, there's only one way:

 

-Create new account

-Move all scores into new account

-Delete older accounts

 

The only advantage is indeed the money factor: if they buy hw, they can split the price in three. However, that has nothing to do with having 1000 points in the hwbot rankings; after all: it's not because they each have to pay less that their scores are higher. None of the hardware they buy overclocks themselves because they have a three person team.

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The only advantage is indeed the money factor: if they buy hw, they can split the price in three. However, that has nothing to do with having 1000 points in the hwbot rankings; after all: it's not because they each have to pay less that their scores are higher. None of the hardware they buy overclocks themselves because they have a three person team.

Problem with that is that they are pulling resources like a team, not an individual. If this is allowed the single user rankings are now meaningless as you're comparing individuals who also contribute to a team score to teams who potentially also contribute to a bigger team.

 

There's a distinct advantage as you say for people to pool together their resources. This is what the team ranking is for, not the individual rankings.

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Its simple, its a team within a team. split those points evenly three ways that is their real standing in the individual rankings as far as im concerned. why should one person have to compete against three thats blatantly unfair however you look at it. If this is allowed it just complicates the hwbot system further as others will follow suit.

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It's not a money issue, what you're saying is that it's ok for a group of individuals to pool together with a greater array of benchable hardware (and thus more achieve more points than as an individual any one of them could attain and therefore get a higher ranking).

 

The hardware itself could cost peanuts off ebay as all hardware can get you points, not just the £500 GPUs and £1000 CPUs.

 

If this is allowed there's a distinct advantage for groups of individuals to "merge" their scores where they have little overlap in hardware and as a result end up higher in the "individual" rankings.

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i would say its a money and points

 

if 3 guys share hardware they save money

 

also they have more time to bench as while one has the hardware and benches the others can be doing something else

 

and when here runs out of time to bench he just sends the hardware to his team mate who then continues to bench so the hardware is being benched all the the time and scores will improve

 

for us the creation of many smaller teams within our team would be very helpful some of our guys on tight budgets or only have time to bench once a month could form there own groups

and share there hardware as you have outlined all under a new name

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All I want is that they are a team and therefore they should be in the team rankings NOT the indiviual ranks.

 

They want to bench as a sub-team or mini-team then fair enough but should be in the correct ranking accordingly, it's nothing to do with money from my point of view even though they have used this method to rise high in the indiviual ranks and get noticed by sponsers by pulling their combined resources together.

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and you could also photoshop all your screenshots, copy them from others, lend hardware from others, overclocking using LN2 you stole from a truck, cheat your way into the rankings and so forth.

 

we are only trying to get to the bottom of whats allowed and whats not jmke

 

if the creation of sub teams is allowed and we can get more points and cheaper hardware we will do it

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1. 829.10 sacha35 United Kingdom Bench Tec UK

2. 720.30 jabski

3. 531.20 Barron_Greenback

4. 498.40 Bustah

 

 

so if we combine this part of our team we will still have the same amount of points

 

but will be above king pin in the single ranks and be allowed to share all the hardware within this group as they only count as one

 

is that ok

 

I calculated the points of this hypothetical account: 858.5 (incl. 300 hw points).

 

I think a lot of you underestimate the effects of joined accounts. It's not a win-win situation.

 

The team would lose a lot of points too

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massman could you answer these posts

 

so i could still create smaller teams from within my team that say only have 100pt each

 

and they would be able to share there hardware

 

this would save them some money as sharing would be OK within the new groups

 

 

 

 

i would say its a money and points

 

if 3 guys share hardware they save money

 

also they have more time to bench as while one has the hardware and benches the others can be doing something else

 

and when here runs out of time to bench he just sends the hardware to his team mate who then continues to bench so the hardware is being benched all the the time and scores will improve

 

for us the creation of many smaller teams within our team would be very helpful some of our guys on tight budgets or only have time to bench once a month could form there own groups

and share there hardware as you have outlined all under a new name

Edited by bazx
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New subteam rulesDear HWBot members,

 

In the past we have stated that for joined benchmark sessions users could register a new account to start a subteam. The impact of these subteams, however, was more than a bit underestimated. Our Russian friends of the Russian Overs Team, Sergey13 and Mayk, clearly showed the HWBot crew how easy it was for their team to gain HWBoints just by registering more subteams. Along with the negative response posted by members on our forums, we are obliged to rewrite the guidelines.

 

From now on, we still encourage joined benchmark sessions, but the results must be uploaded in this way:

 

- For videocard benchmarks (3DMark01/03/05/06, Aquamark): upload the results to the account of the owner of the videocard.

- For processor benchmarks (SuperPi1M/32M, PCMark05, wPrime32M/1024M, PiFast): upload the results to the account of the owner of the processor.

- Uploading lower scores on other accounts than the one of owner of the hardware is not allowed.

 

Sergey13 and Mayk have already asked us to manualy move the results to another account and we kindly ask other members, in the same situation, to do the same.

 

- The HWBot crew.

 

 

19 comments - posted on 10 August, 2007 by Massman

Edited by sacha35
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jmke if it is OK to create sub teams i will go and talk with my team and give you a list of the guys who will form the new sub teams

 

and you or massman can move the points and delete the old member names

 

Can you answer me is it ok to do this yes or no?

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so i could still create smaller teams form within my team that say only have 100pt each

 

and they would be able to share there hardware

 

this would save them some money as sharing would be OK within the new groups

 

That should not really a problem, but know that none of the people who are in a subteam is allowed to have another account on hwbot OR is allowed to be in two subteams. Hardware cannot be shared between teams, so one cannot give his hardware to another team.

 

Creating a personal account next to the subteam's account will be considered as hardware sharing. Sharing hardware between subteams will also be considered hardware sharing.

 

!! Before I explicitly say YES or NO, I'd like to have a look at the implications of the concept points-wise. !!

 

i would say its a money and points

 

if 3 guys share hardware they save money

 

also they have more time to bench as while one has the hardware and benches the others can be doing something else

 

and when here runs out of time to bench he just sends the hardware to his team mate who then continues to bench so the hardware is being benched all the the time and scores will improve

 

for us the creation of many smaller teams within our team would be very helpful some of our guys on tight budgets or only have time to bench once a month could form there own groups

and share there hardware as you have outlined all under a new name

 

Money - yes: you can split the costs of hardware

Points - no: as I demonstrated by calculating the points if the top4 members of BenchTec shared an account.

 

- For videocard benchmarks (3DMark01/03/05/06, Aquamark): upload the results to the account of the owner of the videocard.

- For processor benchmarks (SuperPi1M/32M, PCMark05, wPrime32M/1024M, PiFast): upload the results to the account of the owner of the processor.

- Uploading lower scores on other accounts than the one of owner of the hardware is not allowed.

 

No violation of these rules. The three people who form the BenchBros team upload scores to the account they own.

 

jmke if it is OK to create sub teams i will go and talk with my team and give you a list of the guys who will form the new sub teams

 

and you or massman can move the points and delete the old member names

 

Can you answer me is it ok to do this yes or no?

 

First of all: RB is the only one who's able to merge accounts of members (requires action in the database itself). Since we have time restrictions, I insist that you take the time to think things through. There's no way that we'll merge everything first and then split it up if turns out your team plummets in the team rankings ... that would take too much time.

 

Points-wise, I can onlys see one benefit which is that you will have less low-point members in your team; your team's total will drop significantly and you won't suddenly have top5 members. Oh, and people will lose their personal accounts.

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!! Before I explicitly say YES or NO, I'd like to have a look at the implications of the concept points-wise. !!

 

we will wait until you have said Yes or No before we work on the new team layout

 

we will also be working on how the points will be effected and where it would be best to form sub teams

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I calculated the points of this hypothetical account: 858.5 (incl. 300 hw points).

 

I think a lot of you underestimate the effects of joined accounts. It's not a win-win situation.

 

The team would lose a lot of points too

Some people might not be overly concerned about their teams score, but it does go to show that doing this will get a group further up the table than they would have otherwise as individuals, which as some have pointed out, might be the difference between getting sponsored or not or anyother plaudits that are handed out by HWbot and others.

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