View Full Version : Crowd-funding Aquamark revamp?
Donation tracker
TARGET HAS BEEN REACHED! Thanks to all the donators. Now it's upto us to turn this revamp concept into a showroom project application :)
Switched to Pledgie, but adding the donations manually instead of having them update automatically. Much more secure!
http://pledgie.com/campaigns/15570.png
Thanks to:
+ Christian Ney
+ Dumo
+ Leeghoofd
+ Splave
+ Gautam
+ Knopflerbruce
+ Massman
+ Vialet
+ BenchBros
+ Mr Moose
+ Hyperhorn
+ Berserker
+ Borsti
+ Miahallen
+ ROGgen
+ Gamer
Original message
Just checking if anyone would be up to make a small donation to cover the coding work for an Aquamark3 revamp project.
The project:
- get rid of the poor verification procedure
- Heaven-like security
- subtest information stored on hwbot
Initially, we figured to do this as open-source program, but due to the nature of the project (adding security) it's not possible. After all, the point of security is that it's secure, not that everyone can see how it's secured and then make a workaround for it :).
Let me know if anyone wants to help out covering the financial part of this. Or if anyone has any ideas for the project of course!
Whats the long-term future of AM3? It takes less and less time to run, it's more of a CPU bench than a GPU one. Sure, theres a GPU influence, but PCM05 has that too....
Gunslinger
06-29-2011, 14:12
Whats the long-term future of AM3? It takes less and less time to run, it's more of a CPU bench than a GPU one. Sure, theres a GPU influence, but PCM05 has that too....
+1 spot on.
3-4y at least?
The cool thing about HWBOT is that even with old cards you can compete. The GF7 can't run Vantage, or any newer benchmarks, but it can still run Aquamark. Also, for the weaker VGAs the benchmark is still bound by graphics card. But, I agree, that for top-end it's mostly system-based benchmark (cpu, mem, unc, vga all play a role).
submission
Plus, of course, it can be use for limited CPU contests.
AM3 is more fun on older hardware, but does the community want to put time and money into a gpu benchmark thats backward-looking, not forward?
This is NOT a snipe, just an observation....you use nV GF-7 as an example. You want to put time and money into a single benchmark verification that will help older GPU categories (and newre CPU categories) but theres a reluctance to tweak the MHz verification rules for those cards... which will help the clarity of ALL the benchmarks... for free, in the 10 minutes it takes to post an example picture with explanation.
I would consider supporting HWB with AM3 verification.... if it's classed as a CPU bench. But I still question the point of AM3 long-term because it's a time bench
To be honest, I think this is pretty much a question of keeping Aquamark3 alltogether or not. The verification for this benchmark is, sorry for the words, piss-poor. It's basically a screenshot of a screenshot. We can update it a bit with a Heaven-like wrapper so at least the security is up-to-date.
That other things are being discussed (the geometry frequency for instance) is not at all relevant to this topic.
knopflerbruce
06-29-2011, 14:38
I wouldn't mind spending a buck or two, sounds like a nice idea. Although I'm not an expert here, I liked the benchmark as it's different (much shorter) than the others.
I don't really see how running time is an argument, when we still run 1m, pifast and wp32m - all are shorter than AM3.
I would consider supporting HWB with AM3 verification.... if it's classed as a CPU bench.
But it's not a CPU benchmark:
submission
submission
I could post 2 results that would represent my point, you know that.
If it's a GPU benchmark, try running the same card on C2D, s1156 and X58.
GTX550 has a gimped memory bus. Anything 256 and over puts the bottleneck back to the CPU. What about the GTX560 with a 2600K at 5.55?? HWB is down, I cant even check how many of the top scores are with the GPU on air/water
Or you could run PCM05 with a 7800GT and tell me thats a GPU benchmark
1000th post! w00t1
Christian Ney
06-29-2011, 14:54
It's basically a screenshot of a screenshot.
All my submissions are with the subdetails
http://hwbot.org/image/573680.jpg
knopflerbruce
06-29-2011, 14:58
I could post 2 results that would represent my point, you know that.
If it's a GPU benchmark, try running the same card on C2D, s1156 and X58.
GTX550 has a gimped memory bus. Anything 256 and over puts the bottleneck back to the CPU. What about the GTX560 with a 2600K at 5.55??
Or you could run PCM05 with a 7800GT and tell me thats a GPU benchmark
1000th post! w00t1
Most GPU benchmarks scale with CPU power, is 4-way Vantage a CPU benchmark because of that?:D
Cyph3r Smurf
06-29-2011, 14:59
OC Team Denmark would have no problem supporting this project :) It would be great with more security and we need some benchmarks that works for the old cards. It quite hard to run 3dm11 or heaven on a agp card ;)
What about letting us donate through paypal and then update #1 with the persons that helps ? Then I will publish the news about it :)
What is the goal money wise?
BenchBros
06-29-2011, 15:04
I like AM3 very much! It is very short and you can test new settings very often... 10 times more then in other benchmarks in the same time of benching. So you can fully optimze your system... that is fun.
I know no other benchmark scales with nearly every setting... CPU, Uncore, RAM clock, RAM timing, GPU Clock, VRAM clock... so you have to run all components at a very high level to get a decent score :)
In Heaven/11 you dont need skill to tweak the whole system... just push the VGA and thats all.
So we will support AM3 update!
How much money is needed for the update?
I could post 2 results that would represent my point, you know that.
If it's a GPU benchmark, try running the same card on C2D, s1156 and X58.
GTX550 has a gimped memory bus. Anything 256 and over puts the bottleneck back to the CPU. What about the GTX560 with a 2600K at 5.55??
Or you could run PCM05 with a 7800GT and tell me thats a GPU benchmark
1000th post! w00t1
So, we agree it's not a CPU benchmark? Like I said before, it's more a system benchmark for which you need decent memory, cpu and vga for the top scores.
Just for the sake of the argument, you can say even Vantage is not a GPU benchmark according to your logic: http://hwbot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11362. Even 3DMark11 will not be GPU benchmark according to your logic.
So, conclusion is that at a certain level, the benchmark is limited by CPU more than we are usual and that level is currently around the most high-end graphics card performance.
All my submissions are with the subdetails
http://hwbot.org/image/573680.jpg
Those are not the subtests. When you get the score, click on 'more' on the top-right of the window.
What about letting us donate through paypal and then update #1 with the persons that helps ? Then I will publish the news about it :)
What is the goal money wise?
I think €250 should cover most of the work to get it up and running in August.
We can add the names of the people who supported the project in a 'thanks to' section of the wrapper.
In Heaven/11 you dont need skill to tweak the whole system... just push the VGA and thats all.
:p
14 of the top 20 GTX580 results are at air/water MHz. I expect the other 6 scores were just ran at those MHz because thats where they were. Convince me it's a GPU benchmark?
Who'd like to run AM3 a bunch of times with a cranked CPU and mid-range GPU at stock, then OC the GPU..... and put together a scaling chart?
Could always do the same with a mid-range GPU and a CPU at stock... then OC the CPU
but due to the nature of the project (adding security)
Weak excuse, if you ask me :) There are a lot of opensource software for security, specially on nix world. Having "proprietary" but not effective code is not secure, debugging with IDA or similar tools is open to anyone.
Just 5c :) Make it open, so smart developers (no me :D) can join and make it really better :)
Christian Ney
06-29-2011, 15:45
Those are not the subtests. When you get the score, click on 'more' on the top-right of the window.
Damn you right, I never noticed that 'more' button.
thx
Weak excuse, if you ask me :) There are a lot of opensource software for security, specially on nix world. Having "proprietary" but not effective code is not secure, debugging with IDA or similar tools is open to anyone.
Just 5c :) Make it open, so smart developers (no me :D) can join and make it really better :)
Making it opensource would be like telling everybody how to print paper money. It would be impossible to tell the difference between genuine and forged.
There are indeed a lot of opensource software for security, but it’s a different kind of security.A firewall for example lives on your system and you won’t gain anything by making it reporting false positives all the time.
There will always be ways like IDA and other debugging software to see the assembler code. Reading this code, unlike a higher coding language, is pretty difficult. You can add a number of routines that double check the security and report if there has been any cheating.
Making it closed source isn’t to have any "proprietary" but to make sure that you’re score gets all the credit it deserves and isn’t at the end of the list because all the others just cheated.
+1 - I would contribute to making am3 secure. I think its a great bench and that we should keep it.
I'm in.
Loved this bench since MM passed 100K marks long ago:)
Cool, digging the positive responses! Just started a campaign with ChipIn as Pledgie is now asking 3% fee on each transaction.
Let me know if you had any problems. IIRC, Pledgie didn't always update the status (even if donations were made) ... maybe there're no issues with ChipIn.
Christian Ney
06-29-2011, 18:31
Donation done, it's 10 symbolic $ :)
Leeghoofd
06-29-2011, 18:45
10 bucks out of my kids pig donated :)
$20, I wont eat today or tomorrow. Long live AM3
Leeghoofd
06-29-2011, 18:49
did Kenny already contributed ? mista scrooge :p
Pitched in a bit, I loves me some ayquamark.
ChipIn doesn't seem to be responding, but donations are being received. Hm.
knopflerbruce
06-29-2011, 22:46
Added 10 bucks, but I want my achievement!!:)
Christian Ney
06-29-2011, 23:16
Added 10 bucks, but I want my achievement!! :)
See ya next year :p
I think it's a CPU Benchmark...
with my i920 @ 4.2Ghz and GTX480 OC'd to the gills I barely got in the 200K.... I just re-ran it with my GTX580 OC'd to the gills and my CPU is at 2.8Ghz... and my score just broke 140k....
Better GPU... Same CPU and Setup but just at a lower clock...
I also got 145K with my i920 @ 3.9Ghz and my 8800GTS at a nice OC...
So if it's a GPU Benchmark... how does an 8800GTS get a better score vs. GTX580... and the only difference is that the CPU is 1.1Ghz Higher in OC....
It's a CPU numbers game, the algorithm seems to depends on it... Higher CPU clock = Higher score...
If you did anything with that bench I would prefer that it spit out a JPEG instead of that TGA file..then at least I could open it with MS Paint and not have to install any apple crap or Gimp...
Vin
BenchBros
06-30-2011, 07:37
where can i donate money?
I cannot find a paypal link or something like that...
I think it's a CPU Benchmark...
Please use the right OS...
Thanks for the donations, currently we're at 90/350 ~ 25% of the target.
Still trying to figure out the chipin issues ... donations are arriving, but Chipin doesn't seem to want to update.
where can i donate money?
I cannot find a paypal link or something like that...
frederikcolardyn@gmail.com
richba5tard
06-30-2011, 11:28
Thanks for the donations, currently we're at 90/350 ~ 25% of the target.
Still trying to figure out the chipin issues ... donations are arriving, but Chipin doesn't seem to want to update.
frederikcolardyn@hwbot.org
My primary paypal email is frederikcolardyn@gmail.com, maybe that's why the chipin counter thingie does not work?
Hm, good idea. Let's see ...
BenchBros
06-30-2011, 13:26
We donated 45€/65$... hopefully this will help to keep AM3 alive :)
Antinomy
06-30-2011, 22:31
Oh, it took only two years for Massman to come back to my words :D
Did you loose the letters I've sent you back then?
Обещанного три года ждут :d
Hyperhorn
07-02-2011, 17:23
Out of all 3D benchmarks at Hwbot, AM3 is one of my favorit ones. So to help to keep this classic benchmark alive, I donated a little bit.
Better validation system and improved security is sth. I always will support as long as you don't get forced to be online with your bench setup before, during or after the benchmark run. Uploading an encrypted file or sth. like that from a PC of your choice (e.g. Heaven validation) is fine for me.
knopflerbruce
07-02-2011, 19:10
How much $$$ left?
Christian Ney
07-02-2011, 20:53
175 ?
Stromatolites
07-02-2011, 22:32
Just donated £10 :)
Just updated the donations list. We very much appreciate the support!
We're $108.30 from the $350 goal, but I've already given a thumbs up to get the project going.
miahallen
07-04-2011, 05:06
"Pledgie" donate button in OP isn't working :confused:
$26 sent via PayPal
Christian Ney
07-04-2011, 07:38
"Pledgie" donate button in OP isn't working :confused:
Yeah pledgie is only here to show the progression :p
BenchBros
07-04-2011, 11:52
but I've already given a thumbs up to get the project going.
Great news !!
Sorry guys, how do I send a donation ?
I Never use Pay Pal, someone is kind enough to explain how, please ? :o
Donated the last $50 needed.
hokiealumnus
07-06-2011, 14:43
Just saw this and was actually going to donate to something. Not much, but AM3 is worth it! Thanks to all that donated to keep this awesome benchmark alive. It has been my favorite '3D' bench for years. Who cares what it tests? It's FUN. :D
We hit the goal (and a bit higher) !
Application is in pre-alpha phase.
reggiesanchez
07-06-2011, 19:09
wow you guys are awsome came to donate and you already hit goal. Guess ill send some hwbot's way
BenchBros
07-07-2011, 13:27
Application is in pre-alpha phase.
When you need some tests... let us know :)
Once we have a beta version up and running, we'll distribute it to the peope who donated so they have the first chance to test it :)
Stromatolites
07-08-2011, 09:58
Once we have a beta version up and running, we'll distribute it to the peope who donated so they have the first chance to test it :)
Nice :D
Just tested first alpha version - having chapter details feels weird :D.
List of still-to-do has 8 items currently, but most of them are quite simple adjustments.
ShrimpBrime
07-17-2011, 22:08
Just tested first alpha version - having chapter details feels weird :D.
List of still-to-do has 8 items currently, but most of them are quite simple adjustments.
Cool! Can't wait to see it completed. It's gonna be awesome :D
Weak excuse, if you ask me
Just finished a long brainstorm session and we're going to try to get it partially open-source. The idea is to keep all the logic for securing scores inside our current application and write the GUI shell in a different language, one that is easily 'crackable' and editable.
More practical, this would mean that anyone could customize the GUI (eg add team logo) or add features (eg: automatic readout from gpuz), but it would not affect the security of the files. Of course we will just stick to the basic layout (time limitations), but maybe some software enthusiasts can go crazy with it.
If everything goes well, the code will be open sourced the moment we get the basic version up and running.
I'll leave the technical details to mcq8.
BenchBros
07-18-2011, 13:26
Nice.... we are waiting for the first test application to test it on our bench system :)
Good news. We're completing the beta site (not at hwbot) to test the first beta of the new application. GUI design is in progress; eta ~ wednesday/thursday.
Stromatolites
07-25-2011, 19:34
Thanks for the update :)
Stromatolites
08-02-2011, 22:04
Nice GUI.
First betas have been send out to the people who made a donation :)
Stromatolites
08-05-2011, 21:24
Seems to be running well. Much nicer than the old method.
Berserker
09-09-2011, 12:59
And what is the status? :)
App has been created and tested. All that rests is to prepare the back-end code and put it online ... :)
knopflerbruce
09-09-2011, 17:15
It's not possible to add a few extra decimals to the avg FPS? When you run old cards and get 1.0fps for example anyone who wants to beat the score must beat it by 10% the way it is now.
Stromatolites
11-21-2011, 00:01
Massman, are we able to upload results to Hwbot with the current build? I never got round to asking during tests, and have a few results to upload?
Also whats the status of this now? Haven't heard anything for a while.
The application is done, I just need to fine time to schedule it in an HWBOT build
Fyi, we've added the Aquamark3 support for this development sprint. The sprint is due 14/12.
Christian Ney
12-02-2011, 15:42
w00t
can you please put my name on the side of the submarine? ;)
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