Should HWBot be divided into a two class structure?

[steponz]

hey Mass anyway we can get demo of what is new? When you change it of course... and maybe have it in place with the old stuff.. to ease transition and to also get comments... This way it would ease the big transition..

I have done this for clients before.. to make it less of an all or nothing approach....

Here's my 2 cents again.. lol

[stummerwinter]

Originally Posted by BenchZowner

Massman you don't know who the sponsored people are ?
Are you kidding us man ?

Considering that sponsored for overclocking differs from getting 1 review sample every now and then, it's quite easy...

Let's see if I can guess some...

HiCookie
Andre Yang
Nickshih
SF3D
K|ngp|n
elmor
hipro5
kinc
hiwa
stummerwinter
youngpro
Deanzo
Vivi ( at least until a few months ago )

I didn't read the whole thread, just to step in here...

I'm against splitting up the ranking, because:

- how to control who is pro or not?
- will there be a group of people to decide this?
- how much suplier given hardware disqualifies you from non-pro?
- rumors/accusing will get more non-pro, where people have to prove not getting support

For me personally it would be disaponting competing against the real big ones, I personally get only more or less mainboard support (extra where 2 PSUs, and some VGAs only for testing/selecting). Stuff like ONE CPU (selected one out of five non pretested CPUs) in the last two years and some VGAs, memory where some kind of compensation for hard work on exibitions, and this ist hard work and costs a lot of time in preparation these...

I spent this year thousands of euro out of my own pocket, so for me I would step back to non-pro and give up support from ASUS...

So, from my point of view, don't split, I would not change anything, I think, it would get worse...

I missed one thing...

A lot of people complained about unfair old hwbot-ranking/point system, but now, are there real changes in the top rankings? The only thing I see that much more effort (money + time) is needed to stay in Top10/20 compared to last year...Some are new, some are out of this top...

Missed another thing:

Hiding informations will increase too! Actions like the one from hipro and Kinc will getting less and less because pros will NOT share their informations. I really appreciated the things by both did last days...

Third thing missed:

Have a lock back in the last lets say two years...The key is NOT getting hardware support from a manufacturer, the key is having direct access either to INTEL getting selected CPUs or get a lot of them (which way ever) and have luck to select a real good one...Even in bot 2.0 the CPU is still the key (accept 3D03 and maybe 3DV with GT)...

[Massman]

First of all I want to stress this: I am replying here as 'Massman' and not 'HWBOT'. I'm also not informing you on the latest developments in the project, but just thinking out loud and presenting my view on the suggestions

Just so that you guys know ...

Originally Posted by icebob

Good move Massman, now my question will we allowed to join the pro league on a voluntary basis or we'll have to get sponser first?

That's a good question and certainly a topic that we need to think about. My opinion is different from the one of other staff members as I believe that we shouldn't be forcing anyone to join the league or not to join the league. Ideally, all the people who are seeded heavily would move by themselves to the league and we'd not have this issue.

I think that this 'pro league' should be seen more of a 'marketing league', by which I mean that this league overclockers play who receive hardware to be used for marketing a product. This, in other words, excludes those people who get a mainboard once in a while for review, as a gift or just to get feedback. There's a distinct difference between being a PRO overclocker and a power user, I think.

In the staff forums, SF3D made a good (and more importantly: doable) suggestion to rate PRO scores the same way you'd rate the 'amateur' scores, without both affecting each other. Team rankings wouldn't be affected then, which is good. Still thinking about the hardware points ... this may be a little bit more tricky.

As for joining the PRO league ... I'm not sure about this either. I think there should be some minimum requirements to join as we don't want newcomers to join just because they want to.

Originally Posted by steponz

hey Mass anyway we can get demo of what is new? When you change it of course... and maybe have it in place with the old stuff.. to ease transition and to also get comments... This way it would ease the big transition..

I have done this for clients before.. to make it less of an all or nothing approach....

Here's my 2 cents again.. lol

Nothing has been done in terms of coding, so nothing to show yet.

[Monstru]

I don't know if it is just me, but I come home for ~ 2 weeks travel and hussle with Computex, and I find HWBot divided into all sorts of threads regarding pro leagues, ES, non ES disputes, hardware sharing and all that, and I find this really weird. I think constantly impproving something is a great road to perfection. One should be carefull though, too many drastic changes might not have the same effect

[|ron]

Originally Posted by Monstru

I don't know if it is just me, but I come home for ~ 2 weeks travel and hussle with Computex, and I find HWBot divided into all sorts of threads regarding pro leagues, ES, non ES disputes, hardware sharing and all that, and I find this really weird. I think constantly impproving something is a great road to perfection. One should be carefull though, too many drastic changes might not have the same effect

You're right, sometimes it's better to change gradually than to break totally with the past and then saying "oh, it's a shit, let's turn back where we were"
... and I think we're discussing all those things to let Frederick and you do the right changes.

[Gautam]

Originally Posted by stummerwinter

I didn't read the whole thread, just to step in here...

I'm against splitting up the ranking, because:

- how to control who is pro or not?
- will there be a group of people to decide this?
- how much suplier given hardware disqualifies you from non-pro?
- rumors/accusing will get more non-pro, where people have to prove not getting support

For me personally it would be disaponting competing against the real big ones, I personally get only more or less mainboard support (extra where 2 PSUs, and some VGAs only for testing/selecting). Stuff like ONE CPU (selected one out of five non pretested CPUs) in the last two years and some VGAs, memory where some kind of compensation for hard work on exibitions, and this ist hard work and costs a lot of time in preparation these...

I spent this year thousands of euro out of my own pocket, so for me I would step back to non-pro and give up support from ASUS...

So, from my point of view, don't split, I would not change anything, I think, it would get worse...

Pretty much completely agree with you on everything. I think that an "amateur" class could help people who have no industry contacts whatsoever though, but not much more. Otherwise the top 10, 20, etc won't change.

And that's the other thing people are missing. The problem is not with who can be in the "pro" class. The "pro" class should be open to everyone. After all, most of the people complaining about things not being fair would rather be in the "amateur" class I'd think. Having to compete against the likes of Andre, hicookie and Nick should be enough of a natural deterrent for most from the "pro" class.

The problem will arise in the "amateur" class, where gray areas like reviewers that get some freebies might want to be in it, but it wouldn't be fair to people who pay for everything, etc. If everyone will want to be in the pro class, then there's no reason to have one. The reason to make two classes is because people are upset that things aren't "fair".

[icebob]

I think the big thing is what are the manufacturer think about it? Did you guys already talk to them about a "pro" league?What were their initial thought? If they don't want to think about it, I think the debate is closed. And on visibility purpose, will it be better to be seen as # 30 in the pro league, or #1 in amateur, cause I think if the manufacturer agree with 2 league there will be more motivation for the amateur to work his arse off to get up there so he have some visibility, and maybe a chance to move up

[knopflerbruce]

If you have a pro class and an amateur class, where the pro class is the "everything goes"-league, and they choose to join it, then they can't really whine about the rules, as there already is a league for the ones who don't like mfg support and uberbinned engineering samples.

[stummerwinter]

Originally Posted by Gautam

The problem will arise in the "amateur" class, where gray areas like reviewers that get some freebies might want to be in it, but it wouldn't be fair to people who pay for everything, etc. If everyone will want to be in the pro class, then there's no reason to have one. The reason to make two classes is because people are upset that things aren't "fair".

But these rumours will come asap when a amatuer-class starts. How will you controll it? Only by trust? That's something we allready see doesn't work...

If somebody get only a little support, what would they prefer (not everybody), beeing Top 5 amateur or Top 30 pro? I'm allready through something similar in sports, even for phsychologial/personal reasons it better to be top in a lower class then end of the ranking in a higher league, trust me, have seen this many times...

Originally Posted by icebob

I think the big thing is what are the manufacturer think about it? Did you guys already talk to them about a "pro" league?What were their initial thought? If they don't want to think about it, I think the debate is closed. And on visibility purpose, will it be better to be seen as # 30 in the pro league, or #1 in amateur, cause I think if the manufacturer agree with 2 league there will be more motivation for the amateur to work his arse off to get up there so he have some visibility, and maybe a chance to move up

At the end manufacturers dont' care if they get enough publicity...

[Hondacity]

why did i miss this thread....voted yessssssssssssss

At the end manufacturers dont' care if they get enough publicity---BS

i wonder who will rank top 10 ...no sponsors

i wonder who'll rank worst 10 ..with sponsors ..hahahahha