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Rules Updates Discussion about ongoing/future rules updates

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  #1  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Fix HWBOT

kmn

Topics:
- Less and less interest for XOC
- League separation
- Points distribution
- Cooling verification
- ES, Free hardware (media/PR samples, sponsored hw)
- Server Hardware

Solutions:
-
-
-
-
-
-



Threads:
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=155389
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=155399
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=155518
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=160448
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=160715
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=160841
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=162001
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=161999

Last edited by Christian Ney; 09-30-2016 at 20:12.
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  #2  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

dont assume as a user that you have any controls over the rules.

in basketball if all the players want the three point line moved in 5 feet do you think the organization does it? hell no suck it up and play
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  #3  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

Wait, you're asking for solutions or just wanting us to kill you now?
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  #4  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

I will come up with some solutions. But feel free to suggest some
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  #5  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

- ES, Free hardware (media/PR samples, sponsored hw)

Latest/next-gen: Elite league.
Old stuff: no penalty

(ie... how it is now)



- Server Hardware

Honestly don't see how it's relevant to us. Hardware points only.





Something not included in your list......

I still don't see why solitary scores should get 2points and a gold medal. IMO, there should be a minimum number of scores, from different countries/teams before either are awarded.

Unpopular? Possibly, but to all who criticise, please keep in mind that this would reduce my number of gold cups as well.

I think (I semi-mentioned this in another therad) that there are so many points and cups out there that they have less value. IMO, it should all be earned, then it means something. There must be something like 1000 gold cups out there that are currently available at stock MHz.
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  #6  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by K404 View Post
- ES, Free hardware (media/PR samples, sponsored hw)

Latest/next-gen: Elite league.
Old stuff: no penalty

(ie... how it is now)



- Server Hardware

Honestly don't see how it's relevant to us. Hardware points only.





Something not included in your list......

I still don't see why solitary scores should get 2points and a gold medal. IMO, there should be a minimum number of scores, from different countries/teams before either are awarded.

Unpopular? Possibly, but to all who criticise, please keep in mind that this would reduce my number of gold cups as well.

I think (I semi-mentioned this in another therad) that there are so many points and cups out there that they have less value. IMO, it should all be earned, then it means something. There must be something like 1000 gold cups out there that are currently available at stock MHz.
The problem with sponsored gear that's retail is it would be near impossible to prove otherwise. That's not the case with ES stuff though, or products/SKU's that aren't available to the public. How else would one get one? :P
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Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

The biggest problem we have is the decreasing interest in XOC. I won't go into details there now but I'd like to discuss these 2 points:

- ES, Free hardware (media/PR samples, sponsored hw)
- Server Hardware

Do you think that ES hardware is the problem we have in the community? I'd like to hear the opinion of a normal user or rookie about this. Apart from some elite or XOC guys I hear almost no complains about this. ES CPUs are pretty rare these days and other ES hardware (e. g.) RAM is not detectable.

PR / media samples / sponsored hardware:

I can only speak for myself but the hardware I get doesn't come for free. I usually have to do reviews or videos for it. The time of getting free samples from all vendors is over. It's pretty easy to get samples if you're willing to spend some time and write some reviews. There is nothing wrong with that.

Server Hardware:
If this is a problem, it would be simple to disable WR points for the multithreaded 2D-Benchmarks.
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  #8  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by der8auer View Post
The biggest problem we have is the decreasing interest in XOC. I won't go into details there now but I'd like to discuss these 2 points:

- ES, Free hardware (media/PR samples, sponsored hw)
- Server Hardware

Do you think that ES hardware is the problem we have in the community? I'd like to hear the opinion of a normal user or rookie about this. Apart from some elite or XOC guys I hear almost no complains about this. ES CPUs are pretty rare these days and other ES hardware (e. g.) RAM is not detectable.

PR / media samples / sponsored hardware:

I can only speak for myself but the hardware I get doesn't come for free. I usually have to do reviews or videos for it. The time of getting free samples from all vendors is over. It's pretty easy to get samples if you're willing to spend some time and write some reviews. There is nothing wrong with that.

Server Hardware:
If this is a problem, it would be simple to disable WR points for the multithreaded 2D-Benchmarks.
Re ES Samples:

I don't think it's THE problem, but it certainly is a problem with the top guys being given cherry picked samples to achieve some of their WR/top scores. Obviously this isn't ALWAYS the case, but we do know that some vendors will give their guys super awesome samples that are capable of WR. Also ES samples aren't retail therefore aren't on a level playing field.

Obviously those with mountains of cash can BIN a crap ton of retail chips and get a golden sample, but that's up to them!

Re PR/Media Samples/Sponsored Hardware

I certainly wouldn't call what I get free hardware...I work super hard for whatever samples I get and when I get to keep one, the payment for the board is the work I do, which is usually considered more than the samples worth when you take time spent into account etc.

I could obviously see some's position on this, but given that I usually get an invoice included, I haven't just been "given" it. Also the stuff given to media is all retail stuff and sold on the open market, whereas some boards/GPU/memory kits XOC members gets are certainly not available for sale!

If that gets put into the ES category, so be it...I buy 95% of the gear I use anyway on extreme cooling anyway!
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  #9  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

Coming at it slightly from the opposite direction....What harm does the ES rule/rules cause?

If there is the slightest chance that Intel or AMD might, at any point in the future, have ES that outperform retail, even if only for the first few months, then it "has" to stand. Rules are meant to be proactive, not reactive.

The people with ES on launch day are "on the inside." Even if a lot of their time has been spent debugging BIOS, it all adds to their understanding of the platform, it is a sign of an advantage in access.

I have zero problem with ES existing on HWBot, but for the people who have efficient LN2 results up at the moment of NDA-expiry... they are not normal users and cannot be classed as such.

If they feel that they are being treated unfairly, tell them to turn down the offer of ES. If they say "no way," then it shows that they consider it an advantage

Saying yes or no to something, to stay within the league rules, is always an option
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Originally Posted by Hondacity View Post
i believe in K404! :P
https://twitter.com/K404ExtremeOC

I do not believe in 1st place by any means, at any cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by der8auer View Post
Knowing workarounds to get a benchmark to run is not a skill. It's a combination of knowledge and wasting time.

Last edited by K404; 09-07-2016 at 16:10.
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  #10  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by K404 View Post

I have zero problem with ES existing on HWBot, but for the people who have efficient LN2 results up at the moment of NDA-expiry... they are not normal users and cannot be classed as such.
I think this sums it up perfectly tbh
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