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  #11  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

Declining interest in XOC? I'm surprised by that.

So... all LN2 benching, basically?

Is it less fun? Ranking contributions are the same, the things necessary for a ranking haven't changed. Is it cost?
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  #12  
Old 09-07-2016
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Cooling verification

This was going to be a problem from the second it was first implemented and people did see it coming. I'm surprised that things went "ok" for as long as they did.

Solution? Video proof of a score being obtained during the session that the submitted score came from. Desktop will be the same, timestamp will be similar.. Include a thermometer showing the ambient.
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  #13  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

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Originally Posted by K404 View Post
Cooling verification

This was going to be a problem from the second it was first implemented and people did see it coming. I'm surprised that things went "ok" for as long as they did.

Solution? Video proof of a score being obtained during the session that the submitted score came from. Desktop will be the same, timestamp will be similar.. Include a thermometer showing the ambient.
I think with all that extra "effort" in validating, it will put some off

Wouldn't bother me though personally...
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  #14  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

Also another issue (may just be me, but I doubt it).

Sandbagging results...In the interest of fair competition, I believe that people should submit their best scores, not keep them for 6 months as "security".

Thoughts?
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  #15  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

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Originally Posted by K404 View Post
Declining interest in XOC? I'm surprised by that.

So... all LN2 benching, basically?

Is it less fun? Ranking contributions are the same, the things necessary for a ranking haven't changed. Is it cost?
My current feelings:


For me it's a combination of stupidly high costs and lack of interesting hardware, not lack of XOC interest overall.

I refuse to pay $1700+ for a CPU that should be $1000

I refuse to pay $1200 for GPU that is locked down like a maximum security prison. Bring on 1080 Ti non-reference already!

Skylake is even kind of silly to me, gobs of expensive thermal paste to get the perfect mount for max clocks...


The lower end stuff is just not appealing to me at all and never has been.
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  #16  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

I don't get why people are against server hardware for multithreaded 2D benchmarks. It's normally hardware that isn't binned - you buy once, benchmark and you're done.

With 3D benches you're potentially going through dozens of CPUs, two or more top end graphics cards, etc. The costs involved running a 6950X, decent RAM, a high-end board and four GTX Titan Xs is around $ 6,500 excluding losses from binning, LN2, and potential hardware loss from running sub zero.

For that same $ 6,500 I can buy a dual CPU rig that will do some serious destruction to multithreaded 2D benches.
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  #17  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

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I don't get why people are against server hardware for multithreaded 2D benchmarks. It's normally hardware that isn't binned - you buy once, benchmark and you're done.

With 3D benches you're potentially going through dozens of CPUs, two or more top end graphics cards, etc. The costs involved running a 6950X, decent RAM, a high-end board and four GTX Titan Xs is around $ 6,500 excluding losses from binning, LN2, and potential hardware loss from running sub zero.

For that same $ 6,500 I can buy a dual CPU rig that will do some serious destruction to multithreaded 2D benches.
To counter that... it's a "simple" financial outlay in exchange for global points, seeing as most of it is done at stock or a few % above.

Are there any server setups that have >2 points for a gold? (excluding Skulltrail, because that tried to be both server and desktop)

Also, you're comparing max: max. Desktop gear is competitive even with one GPU. 4P systems with one CPU are not....apart from those 2pt golds


If the price is roughly the same, why is no-one buying them out of their own pocket?

I understand *why* WR points were awarded to server systems, in the same way that 4-way GPU was, my stance is that server hardware isn't what HWB is about. It's a different world and the number of submissions, IMO, back that up.
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Knowing workarounds to get a benchmark to run is not a skill. It's a combination of knowledge and wasting time.

Last edited by K404; 09-07-2016 at 19:40.
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  #18  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

I personally have been having a lot of fun at hwbot lately with decently priced hardware.

I remember asking for the 6950x to be banned from gpu rankings the minute I heard the price. You could still use for cpu benching since it's classed as a 10 core.

It just sucks, I want to do high end gpu benching so bad but it's tough because a 1080 doesnt get a lot of points anymore and you are starting off handicapped without a 6950x.

But now that people have been benching titan x I want to try to also just because I want to bench 3d globals really bad.

It doesnt sound like fun to spend $700 on a 1080 and put a lot of work and money into it because if 10 people have benched titan x then automatically you cant get into top 10 and then you still have to compete with the 1080 scores.

I really like the idea we were talking about, with separating gpu classes.

Also I dont see ES as a huge issue and if it's another avenue for overclockers to get samples then I dont think we should kill it, no matter how limited it is.

Most of the top 6700k's floating around are retail.
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  #19  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by K404 View Post
To counter that... it's a "simple" financial outlay in exchange for global points, seeing as most of it is done at stock or a few % above.

Are there any server setups that have >2 points for a gold? (excluding Skulltrail, because that tried to be both server and desktop)

Also, you're comparing max: max. Desktop gear is competitive even with one GPU. 4P systems with one CPU are not....apart from those 2pt golds


If the price is roughly the same, why is no-one buying them out of their own pocket?

I understand *why* WR points were awarded to server systems, in the same way that 4-way GPU was, my stance is that server hardware isn't what HWB is about. It's a different world and the number of submissions, IMO, back that up.
Well that's just it. For as long as I can remember, competitive benching has involved having deep pockets. I remember when the GeForce 6800 came out and suddenly you needed TWO cards to dominate the charts. Yeah, a locked multiplier Athlon64 4000+ could inflict some hurt, but to be up top you'd need an FX-55 or FX-57 - and not every FX was a killer chip. $ 999 was madness for a CPU back then, but the price to pay if you wanted to be top.

Binning BH-5 or TCCD was also an expensive exercise. My first kit of 2x256 MB BH-5 cost me about $ 200 almost fifteen years ago, and it sucked - max SPI1M was only around 260 MHz.

Considering how few points these server setups get, don't you think the 2 points are well deserved considering the financial outlay?

As for why anyone isn't buying them, I'd argue that firstly some people are and secondly different strokes for different folks. Some people enjoy watching a 100m sprint, some like a 40 mile marathon. Some like a quarter mile drag race, some like 24 Hours of Le Mans. A lot of people find server benchmarks boring.

I say do what you do because you enjoy doing it, not because of points. Hell, several of the benchmarks I really enjoy don't give global or WR points - with anything but the most popular hardware you can't score many hardware points so it's not like I'll get anywhere in the rankings running them but that doesn't mean that I don't run them anyway.

I don't think a point system should define what you enjoy.
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  #20  
Old 09-07-2016
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Default Re: Fix HWBOT

The issue with server hardware is not people buying it, the problem is that there are people with nearly unlimited access to servers because of their job. This means they spend 0 euros, bench these on stock, sometimes with oc, depending on their position, and get huge amounts of global points for free. There were even people benching these with remote access in the past. This can lead to a guy being very high at league position at a ranking that is for oc without even having to do oc or spend. How you judge this is personal attitude
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