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View Poll Results: Where should it be ranked
Under GTX 295 24 48.00%
Under it's own category (GTX 285 x2) 23 46.00%
Under GTX 285 SLI (2x GTX 285) 3 6.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 04-04-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

I don´t think you can compare a technical feature that is unchanged from release day with the fact that a bug at a benchmark was overlooked.
The problem I see is where it starts and ends - we have now cards at same category with difference processes, different memory ics used, different vram sizes, different stock performance because of stock clocks, different amounts of power plugs, phases, cooler differences, different amount of dvi, vga, hdmi, different pcb, different BIOS. Some of these differences make a non neglectable difference at speed and overclockability, some oc cards with decent mems run stock higher than highest oc you can get on others for example (I had cards of different models like this)- and we have cards seperated to different categories with same process, same memory ics used, same amount of vram, same pcb etc etc, when I think of 7900GTX/GTO, ati X1900, Geforce 6800 gt and ultra and so on. So now we have as strunkenbold said 1900 gpu categories, we merge 100 and create 5000 new ones to rule out anyone needs any kind of knowledge at purchasing vgas for benching and overthrow all that was done so far to please a few people.. there is always a reason you can find to complain and always an argument you can find^^. Anyway, this might lead to far, but vgas are different from cpus, there are no stock overclocked E8600, E8700 etc, this makes seperation much easier at least after some old unrecongnizable amd models you might know best about xd
@ Ney this 32% faster cards already exist, you can unlock this feature by something called overclocking - I can sell you an unmodded 260, you simply glue an LED on it and only need to buy 9 more for your series, in worst case I can also change clocks in BIOS if oc is too hard for you... btw, I have an 260 that clocks 680 stock, can I have my own category? I don´t want an unfair advantage against guys who bought stock model cheaper and I need more cups and points
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  #32  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

You can easily compare the time frame, and how it's irrelevant how it affects some (or many) users.

By the same reasoning you shouldn't even differ between like a GTX1070 or a Titan X Pascal, or any Pascal GPU. They're all pascals, thus equal. At least just as equal as a Mars vs a 295. If # of ROPs and bus width is not enough, why are these cards separated? Besides, the Mars isn't marketed as a 295, even: https://www.asus.com/Graphics-Cards/MARS2DI4GD3/ - it's it's own thing. Maybe some software, by error, reads it as a 295 doesn't make it a GTX 295.

The line has been drawn at similar performance at reference speeds. Memory IC, PCB, production process, clocks etc don't change that, but bus width and # of ROPs usually do. This is one of the cases that go against the common practise above. And if this argument doesn't hold, then GTX 275 and 285 should also be merged as the difference between the two is the same as the difference between Mars and 295. Agree?
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  #33  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knopflerbruce View Post
You can easily compare the time frame, and how it's irrelevant how it affects some (or many) users.

By the same reasoning you shouldn't even differ between like a GTX1070 or a Titan X Pascal, or any Pascal GPU. They're all pascals, thus equal. At least just as equal as a Mars vs a 295. If # of ROPs and bus width is not enough, why are these cards separated? Besides, the Mars isn't marketed as a 295, even: https://www.asus.com/Graphics-Cards/MARS2DI4GD3/ - it's it's own thing. Maybe some software, by error, reads it as a 295 doesn't make it a GTX 295.

The line has been drawn at similar performance at reference speeds. Memory IC, PCB, production process, clocks etc don't change that, but bus width and # of ROPs usually do. This is one of the cases that go against the common practise above. And if this argument doesn't hold, then GTX 275 and 285 should also be merged as the difference between the two is the same as the difference between Mars and 295. Agree?
http://img.hexus.net/v2/internationa...CF0175-big.jpg

ASUS presented the card as GTX 295 at Computex 2009. The name is not a "software bug"
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  #34  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

Why it is so hard to make decision on this obviously problem. Its yes GTX 295 with 2x285 inside. You only need to ask this card is 2x285 or 285x2, this the only choice. And you cant mix HD 4850 GDDR5 with HD 4870 and HD 4890 category for obvious reason.
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  #35  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by der8auer View Post
http://img.hexus.net/v2/internationa...CF0175-big.jpg

ASUS presented the card as GTX 295 at Computex 2009. The name is not a "software bug"
Erm, whats does it say under graphics engine???
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  #36  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

Everything you read on this card says it is not a 295, only gpuz

Taken from techpowerup

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  #37  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knopflerbruce View Post
You can easily compare the time frame, and how it's irrelevant how it affects some (or many) users.

By the same reasoning you shouldn't even differ between like a GTX1070 or a Titan X Pascal, or any Pascal GPU. They're all pascals, thus equal. At least just as equal as a Mars vs a 295. If # of ROPs and bus width is not enough, why are these cards separated? Besides, the Mars isn't marketed as a 295, even: https://www.asus.com/Graphics-Cards/MARS2DI4GD3/ - it's it's own thing. Maybe some software, by error, reads it as a 295 doesn't make it a GTX 295.

The line has been drawn at similar performance at reference speeds. Memory IC, PCB, production process, clocks etc don't change that, but bus width and # of ROPs usually do. This is one of the cases that go against the common practise above. And if this argument doesn't hold, then GTX 275 and 285 should also be merged as the difference between the two is the same as the difference between Mars and 295. Agree?
This for example is simply wrong, mem timings matter, I thought you also benched vgas? I really doubt this. And the device ID is no software error, maybe you should google the basics before we keep on discussing at least on this. The Mars has the identical ID like the generic 295GTX
On your logic, you don´t get the point, maybe you should read again what I wrote. What is reference speed? The 7900GTO is a GTX with downclocked mem speed for example, the 6800 Ultra is simply an overclocked 6800GT if you see it this way (they share even same device id iirc), no difference at all apart from this on shaders and rops etc, we has the decision to keep 8800GTS 640 112 at same category like 96 model because it was said another tiny category makes no sense. the 2700k is unlocked but has default 100 mhz more than identical 2600k, therefore it is technically an overclocked 2600k if you want to see it this way, and there are a lot of similar examples like 9800GTX(+) on which was decided to merge or divide despite your holy reference speed being same or different, there is no pattern in these decisions. So why do we divide these and do not on 8800gt amp and card with nv spec clocks? And on others we do different? It was done because of microcode, device id, marketing, sometimes it was done on manageability etc, and a decision made, even by consent, should be reliable if the facts don´t change. We discussed unlocked 6950 to 6970 a few months ago, with the way things are handled here we will discuss this again in half a year and staff can make a task for stuff like this to be overthrown randomly regularly. Meanwhile people who relied on database rankings for years get annoyed and do what alot of people already did, they stop benching.
On the time frame, many people asked over the years to remove or merge a lot of the categories where cpus that never were sold publicly are listed, how irrelevant would it be for you if hwbot decides to do this? There are enough reasons for this, you know the discussions most likely yourself. You beg for es at amd, hunt on ebay for obscure cpus and pay big cash and someone says april´s fools, all cups for these gone after 10 years...
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  #38  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

At the end of the day what is the point?
it started talk about if 2x285 is a 295 or not, IMO now problem is not category but what this involved, POINTS.
IMO people never stop benching beacuse of points, buy 6950X and 4x 1080ti and get every global you can reach
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  #39  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

The problem is of course partially points and cups, otherwise hwbot would have no leagues or rankings, people would not cheat their a.. off to get these and noone would bother to report results apart from liqmet.
Nontheless the problem I see is not the points but the reliability of hwbot decisions. Technical specs on card 5, 10 or 15 years old do not change. If we get a database admin who has other view on this, we overthrow old decisions, and when next admin comes we reverse it again? How reliable is an environment handled this way?

P.S. Anyway, I am out of this discussion, it should not be hard to see now what my opinion on this is. I own no Mars or similar card that would be hit by decisions like this atm so I won´t waste time on this as well as on regrouping cards like I did in the past after decisions like these were done randomly.
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Last edited by websmile; 04-05-2017 at 11:33.
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  #40  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by websmile View Post
If we get a database admin who has other view on this, we overthrow old decisions, and when next admin comes we reverse it again? How reliable is an environment handled this way?
agree with this point of view

About the poll, IMO no one in 2009 noticed that MARS was 2x285 and not 295. Just this.
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