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View Poll Results: Where should it be ranked
Under GTX 295 24 48.00%
Under it's own category (GTX 285 x2) 23 46.00%
Under GTX 285 SLI (2x GTX 285) 3 6.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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  #51  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knopflerbruce View Post
The device ID might be the same, but it's still not a GTX 295, as per specs
MARS was created to beat GTX295, and it was used for this reason. It was bought and benched at hwbot as GTX295. If Nvidia had make GTX299 with full specs (240sp and 512bit), MARS would be there even with GTX295 Device ID. But Nvidia didn't make it. MARS is special limited card that not 'own' rankings and it doesn't have a reference analog, is it really need to make it even more special and useless at hwbot?
I think you agree with the fact that difference in overclocked performance between MARS and GTX295 is the same as between GTX295 and other GTX295. Let's it stay as is and no one will be hurt.
Difference between cards always existed in every model with the same GPU specs. I hope that we will not have tons of new categories just for specs difference.
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  #52  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

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Originally Posted by websmile View Post
Just to reply on your post, regardless of Mars topic.
I wish you were right, but that´s not the way hwbot database works. I took examples 7900 and 6800 plus 9800GTX(+) because these all were handled differently. It does not prove your point but denies it. 6800 U and gt are at same same core, device ID but have different clocks, seperated, 7900GTX and GTO have same core ad core clock, different device ID but mem speed differs, different category, 9800GTX and 9800GTX+ have same core, same device ID and different clocks but are merged at same category... Same goes for dozens of other categories, plus we have some divided by mem size, some not, we have unlocked 6950 with 6970 specs at 6950 category because of device id and so on...
I think I've already mentioned this, but 9800GTX was combined as it was impossble to tell the difference by looking at a screenshot. If this was not the case there would've been two categories to this day. It wasn't handled differently at all. As for 6800 Ultra and 7900 GTO nvidia made those names, it would make no sense not to have separate entries. Luckily, Mars cards can easily be identified by looking at the ROP count and bus width, so there is no need to merge those with 295's.
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  #53  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

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Originally Posted by ZFeSS View Post
MARS was created to beat GTX295, and it was used for this reason. It was bought and benched at hwbot as GTX295. If Nvidia had make GTX299 with full specs (240sp and 512bit), MARS would be there even with GTX295 Device ID. But Nvidia didn't make it. MARS is special limited card that not 'own' rankings and it doesn't have a reference analog, is it really need to make it even more special and useless at hwbot?
I think you agree with the fact that difference in overclocked performance between MARS and GTX295 is the same as between GTX295 and other GTX295. Let's it stay as is and no one will be hurt.
Difference between cards always existed in every model with the same GPU specs. I hope that we will not have tons of new categories just for specs difference.
The question is what differences. In this case it seems obvious: the added bus width and ROPs make the cards substantially different from any regular GTX 295. Not even ASUS recognizes it as a 295 on their website, but as a 2x GTX 285 card.
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  #54  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

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Originally Posted by Christian Ney View Post
Because ASUS chose to use the device ID of the GTX 295 for convenience does not make it a GTX 295.
Exactly. They could've made it look like a 6200 Turbocache if they wanted to, I guess. They chose the closest match, which is fair, but it doesn't make it 100% right.

I wonder why people started subbing this as a 295 in the first place when it was clear the specs were too different?
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  #55  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knopflerbruce View Post
I think I've already mentioned this, but 9800GTX was combined as it was impossble to tell the difference by looking at a screenshot. If this was not the case there would've been two categories to this day. It wasn't handled differently at all. As for 6800 Ultra and 7900 GTO nvidia made those names, it would make no sense not to have separate entries. Luckily, Mars cards can easily be identified by looking at the ROP count and bus width, so there is no need to merge those with 295's.
Sigh - do you know what the visible difference between 9800GTX and GTX+ is - the clocks only- do you know what the visible difference between a 6800gt and 6800 Ultra is - the clocks only...
Both examples have same device main IDs and only differ on the clock rates, a 6800 gt and ultra for example are recognized as 6800 series both, there is no ultra or gt shown, the 9800 models are recognized at 9800GTX/GTX+. And the 9800GTX and 9800GTX+ also was made by nividia, official cards, this was not a board partners choice and all did it... I really have no idea what you want to tell me, but it is wrong anyway
websmile`s Aquamark score: 105691 marks with a GeForce 6800 GT
websmile`s Aquamark score: 116479 marks with a GeForce 6800 Ultra

To top it, here is number 1 at gt category
T0lsty`s Aquamark score: 142353 marks with a GeForce 6800 GT
Here is number one at Ultra category
K404`s Aquamark score: 132104 marks with a GeForce 6800 Ultra
even same core clocks because one is oc model

Making a correct guideline for a possible regroup will stir upa lot of sh.. and these examples only show that a lot was handled differently at hwbot, if you like to admit it or not. I would prefer to not discuss this anymore unless you really get into the topic. You know a lot more most likely about AMD cpus than me, but this vga discussion makes no sense when you do not check the facts
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Last edited by websmile; 04-05-2017 at 20:44. Reason: typo
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  #56  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

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Originally Posted by websmile View Post
Sigh - do you know what the visible difference between 9800GTX and GTX+ is - the clocks only- do you know what the visible difference between a 6800gt and 6800 Ultra is - the clocks only...
Both examples have same device main IDs and only differ on the clock rates, a 6800 gt and ultra for example are recognized as 6800 series both, there is no ultra or gt shown, the 9800 models are recognized at 9800GTX/GTX+. And the 9800GTX and 9800GTX+ also was made by nividia, official cards, this was not a board partners choice and all did it... I really have no idea what you want to tell me, but it is wrong anyway
websmile`s Aquamark score: 105691 marks with a GeForce 6800 GT
websmile`s Aquamark score: 116479 marks with a GeForce 6800 Ultra

To top it, here is number 1 at gt category
T0lsty`s Aquamark score: 142353 marks with a GeForce 6800 GT
Here is number one at Ultra category
K404`s Aquamark score: 132104 marks with a GeForce 6800 Ultra
even same core clocks because one is oc model

Making a correct guideline for a possible regroup will stir upa lot of sh.. and these examples only show that a lot was handled differently at hwbot, if you like to admit it or not. I would prefer to not discuss this anymore unless you really get into the topic. You know a lot more most likely about AMD cpus than me, but this vga discussion makes no sense when you do not check the facts
What facts? 9800GTX were split at first, but as it was not possible to verify that any given sub card was done with a (+) or regular model the categories were merged. You can to this day easily separate a 6800 GT from an Ultra, and therefore both categories are still there. And by the same logic, Mars and 295 should be split, they're more different than 6800GT vs Ultra - and from what I know there never was a discussion regarding these Mars GPUs. The whole thing went below the radar - as far as I can tell. Hence it's not an older decision that's changed, this is the first time this problem has been discussed.

I don't get your reasoning at all - surely we must agree that there should be a new category here when you provide proof that HWBot split much more similar cards than Mars vs 295 several times already?
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  #57  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

The reasoning is simple, and I said it before, hwbot decisions are not always consistent and when we overthrow them randomly, people will lose faith, that simple. Technical specs do not change, you keep decisions alive and do not pick out random cards or categories and change them, you either make a complete workover or you leave things alone. As long as there is no reliable pattern, you only annoy people who rely on old decisions by now deciding to change one thing but let the other stay same
And if you tell me you can keep apart a 6800gt and ultra easily, this is bs - it is even more funny after you see a screen with different card models that have same clocks hilarious. Especially when I take in you can also change BIOS clocks by flashing and on the other hand you tell that on 9800gtx and gtx+ with 675 and 740 stock clock you could not seperate them xd
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  #58  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

In this case the decisions are pretty consistent. There was never a practise to separate cards by brand or factory OC, or memory timngs. However, bus width seems to always require new categories to be made. If you disagree, find me some exceptions. Same thing goes for # of ROPs. If anything, the trend is to separate more rather than less.

As you said yourself: you can flash the BIOS with different clocks, hence you can't tell if a card is a (+) or not when the + sign is nowhere to be found in GPUz. However, a 6800 GT is a 6800 GT in GPUz and an 6800 Ultra is a 6800 Ultra.
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  #59  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

I give in... if you would have bothered to check the hwbot results I linked you would have seen that neither Ultra nor GT are recognized any different than "Nvidia Geforce 6800 series GPU". It is like talking to an alien...
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  #60  
Old 04-05-2017
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Default Re: Poll: ASUS Mars Dual GTX285, where should it be ranked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by websmile
neither Ultra nor GT are recognized any different than "Nvidia Geforce 6800 series GPU". It is like talking to an alien...
Was going to post with this point, yes. "6800 series GPU" can appear at any moment

The 6800 series is especially messy. The info I supplied to help ("help") clear up the categories was misinterpreted

I would like to see very thorough "generic" rules that can apply to any situation.

BUT....validation & rules evolve. HWBot does not remove old scores as long as they fit the validation present at the time of submission. I think that is an important thing to keep in mind.

Enough people knew what the MARS is/was and accepted the classification. How many sets of scores will be affected? 5?
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