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  #21  
Old 06-24-2011
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Advanced search is planned for R4.1 which is due 1st July.
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  #22  
Old 06-24-2011
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The problem we have with the algoritm is located in the TPP - Global part of the equation and is in essence a problem because we wanted to give too much points. TPP global is handed out to the team's best scores in the TPP global rankings, but multiple members of the team can score points within the same benchmark ranking as long as they're using different hardware. One team member can only contribute once, though, as well as one hardware type. In practical terms, it's very much like the team-concept we used in Country Cup 2011. Example:

User A: best 990X, best 980X, best 920 1M (of team)
User B: 2nd best 990X, 2nd best 980X, 2nd best 920 1M (of team)
User C: 3rd best 990X, 3rd best 980X, 3rd best 920 1M (of team)

The first algoritm, where only the best score of the team gets TPP-global for 1M, would have as result that of all team effort in 1M, only User A was helping the team. This is not only biased towards teams with strong ties to vendors (cherry cpus), but also biased towards the high-end extreme overclockers. So, we altered the algoritm to allow one user to contribute with a different piece of hardware. In this example, User A contributes with his 990X, User B with his 980X and User C with his 920 through the 1M TPP ranking.

Example from the real SuperPI 1M ranking, for Team Katana (link to ranking):

#4 - 2600K - Boooooon
#12 - i5 655K - Gyrock
#14 - i7 990X - Cal930
#23 - i5 661 - Hideo
#33 - i7 980X - Futto-Kun

The problem is that both TPP and UP are all based on the same result database. Or, to put it differently, you can't submit to the TPP ranking without also submitting to the UP ranking (or the other way around). The two types of ranking (UP and TPP) require a bit different approach: UP is just about submitting the best score, TPP is figuring out how you can maximize the team input the best. For a TPP-type ranking, it means that sometimes you can have a higher total if you don't submit your best score (see Country Cup). This sometimes conflicts with the UP ranking, for instance when a user with an already great 990X score would submit a slightly better 2600K score and thereby taking away the TPP contribution from a member who only has the 2600K score.

Solutions.

As far as I can see, there are two very easy and quick solutions to this problem and a few more difficult and elaborate. As HWBOT, I'd prefer a quick solution because it can be implemented in a few days and doesn't require us putting lots of resources (time) into this issue. I'll explain the effect using the example we used before.

1/ Just like in the hardware rankings, only allow the best score of the team to contribute in TPP-global rankings.
=> User A contributes with 990X.
=> User B and User C do not contribute (in TPP-global 1M).

2/ Allow multiple contributions per TPP-global ranking from the same user.
=> User A contributes with 990X, 980X and 920.
=> User B and User C do not contribute (in TPP-global 1M).

3/ Probably not as easy to implement. We add an 'disabled for TPP' checkbox to each score. When this box is checked, the score is not accounted for in the TPP rankings.
=> User A contributes with 990X, does not use checkbox for 980X and 920.
=> User B checks the box for his 980X score and contributes with the 920.
=> User C contributes with 980X.

The third solution is probably the most interesting strategy-wise, but I'm not sure if it can be implemented within a reasonable (< 1 month) timeframe. The first and second solution are just very minor changes to the algoritm, but both of these solutions were dismissed during the Rev4 developing phase as they both bias the Team League towards individuals who have access to the best handpicked hardware.

Your thoughts?
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Last edited by Massman; 06-24-2011 at 15:41.
  #23  
Old 06-24-2011
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As long as no team member from my team/forum is obliged to delete a result to better the team total I am happy. It therefore seems that #3 is the way to go.
  #24  
Old 06-24-2011
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Solution #4: Remove Global TPP.

Have team points are calculated as:
- the HW points from the number 1 member in that for that HW
- + 10% of everyone elses contributions (or for ease of code, everyones points so no.1 counts 110% for the team).

That way, you still have an effect on HW sharing, no-one has to delete scores, teams don't get a headache trying to work out who needs to select what scores. There will still be a bias towards the one team member with the cherry, but there always is that issue, unless you remove sponsored people from teams.
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  #25  
Old 06-24-2011
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Besides the obvious dislikes you'll get from the teams who usually focus more on high-end hardware, removing Global TPP is a problem because for most starting teams/users it's the easiest way to grab a bunch of points very quickly. To engage people to learn more about overclocking, having an easy start is quite important.

Some see strategy as headache, some see it as a challenge.
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  #26  
Old 06-24-2011
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#2 Is the only one that makes sense to me, if all globals for a particular bench can contribute to your personal rankings then it should be the same from a team standpoint, if one person is a pcmark specialist and that's all they want to bench then let them. I think that was a step forward in rev4, if you/your team dominates a benchmark you should get full points.

#3 is basically what we wanted to avoid and #1 puts even more weight on that one person.

I definitely don't think the way to solve a problem with an overcomplicated system is to make it more complicated with option 3.
  #27  
Old 06-24-2011
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Is there going to be a writen test at the end, because I'm totally lost?

Maybe some kind of online course to teach team captains how to understand the ranking system so we can in turn teach our team?
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  #28  
Old 06-24-2011
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i'd say #2 fits best, as that way a team can set an strategy like member "x" focus on a determinate hardware and member "y" on another different one

#1 seems like too much depending on just one person and kinda hurts what a team effort should meant to be in my opinion (as for TPP)

#3 seems quite difficult either to implement and to follow for us members , we should know exactly how TPP are affecting in each category/ranking/benchmark and it'd be real hard knowing when to tick or untick the checkbox
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  #29  
Old 06-24-2011
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I don't think large majority of people will spend the time to understand option #3. And if they did it would be a lot of work to check an entire teams scores to maximize points.

#2 is the best option if I understand it correctly. Its a team competition so the best team score for any hardware should always count. Even if the same user is generating the points.
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  #30  
Old 06-24-2011
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I suggest create a new thread with a poll in it

I'm all in for either options #1 and #2.
Option #3 makes sense too, but it would take a lot of effort for teams to analyse TPP global ranks and their scores and get the best out of them ... this takes time, and I'd rather see people spend their time on benching
 


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