Team runs

[1Day]

I suspect a working solution would be that team scores are only derived from a specified number (and listed) set of team members. Like in team sports - so many active players in the game and unlike most team sports unspecified number of substitutes. That is inclusive of collective benching sessions. In other words any team score would only be made up of a pre determined number of team member submissions, be it the complete team collective benching as one group, groups of the team pooling equipment and benching together or individuals benching alone. What the ideal number would be is up to the moderation and admin staff to deciede. Each team captain would have to nominate which "members" are to be included in the team listings. The desiginated team caption can change team members as and when she/he sees fit. Much like any sporting event, substituting players in and out of the game. Once in your results are then inlcuded into the totals accruing for the team total if you as a member are substituted out of the game (so to speak) your results are removed from the totals accruing for that team. But of course the individual results will still remain and accrue individual points but not team points.

The coding is not to difficult I would suspect and designated team captain can either edit team lists them self (the option I would suggest) or pm mod staff to do so.

[Gorod]

So lets say ... 2 people from a team , that already have boints posted to their accounts from non group benching with 8800GTX and 8800GTX SLI are allowed to create a phantom bot , get together and add another 300-350 easy boints out from nowhere to their team ? How's that make sense ?
Nobody is going to take action about that ? :/

[Massman]

Originally Posted by Gorod

So lets say ... 2 people from a team , that already have boints posted to their accounts from non group benching with 8800GTX and 8800GTX SLI are allowed to create a phantom bot , get together and add another 300-350 easy boints out from nowhere to their team ? How's that make sense ?
Nobody is going to take action about that ? :/

We're working on it ... we can't just ban their account, because that would be even more unethical.

[Praz]

Originally Posted by Massman

We're working on it ... we can't just ban their account, because that would be even more unethical.

If by banning the account you mean the the overall account then yes that would be wrong. But removing the sub-team scores should not be an issue.

I have looked through the top 20 teams. It was a quick glance so if this is not accurate I apologize. No other team appears to have submitted scores by a phantom member made up of existing members with posted scores. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is even if there is no rule explicitly forbidding this type of entry 19 out of 20 teams know that ethically and morally this would be against the spirit of what HWbot is about.

If I were to create a sub-team and submit a score and it was later discovered that I was the only person of that so-called team you would have no issue with deleting my score as a minimum response. This situation is no different other then the fact that the entry consists of two members with countable scores instead of just one.

Everyone that is a member of HWbot knows that only one score is countable for any one type of given hardware. To allow this type of score to remain is not only a slap in the face of all other teams but also to HWbot itself. I, no we ask that you do the right thing in this matter so that this type of thing cannot happen in the future. Several of the top 20 teams have already voiced their disapproval of allowing this type of behavior. The only right thing to do in this matter is to delete the scores of the sub-teams and state that this is not allowed. Or freeze the sub-team's points at it's current value and give all other teams the same amount of points.

[harleybro]

Originally Posted by 1Day

In other words any team score would only be made up of a pre determined number of team member submissions, be it the complete team collective benching as one group, groups of the team pooling equipment and benching together or individuals benching alone.

So once again the team can earn points that it has already earned as individuals? If there is a team then I believe no members of the team should be able to submit results for the hardware used on an individual basis. Each run done by the team could easily be submitted under a single users ID and have the team members listed in the description. Ex. If three ppl bench together why not list all 01 scores under one user, all 03 scores under another user, and finally all 05 scores under the last user. If it is such a team effort this shouldn't be too difficult to work out amongst themselves.

Originally Posted by Massman

We're working on it ... we can't just ban their account, because that would be even more unethical.

Maybe unethical but the scores could easily be blocked. This sub-team in question was logged into the forums yesterday afternoon but had nothing to add to the thread.? What is so unethical about blocking scores that are causing so much contraversy until a solution is determined?

Originally Posted by Praz

I have looked through the top 20 teams. It was a quick glance so if this is not accurate I apologize. No other team appears to have submitted scores by a phantom member made up of existing members with posted scores. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is even if there is no rule explicitly forbidding this type of entry 19 out of 20 teams know that ethically and morally this would be against the spirit of what HWbot is about.

I agree about the teams but there is one team that made a jump recently and it appears as though results may be being submitted by more then one user. Four out of the top 5 members all have similiar results and similiar HW runs all using LN2. Some runs submitted within a day or two of each other. Mind you this team is comprised of two seperate forums that recently combined.

Originally Posted by Praz

Everyone that is a member of HWbot knows that only one score is countable for any one type of given hardware. To allow this type of score to remain is not only a slap in the face of all other teams but also to HWbot itself. I, no we ask that you do the right thing in this matter so that this type of thing cannot happen in the future. Several of the top 20 teams have already voiced their disapproval of allowing this type of behavior. The only right thing to do in this matter is to delete the scores of the sub-teams and state that this is not allowed. Or freeze the sub-team's points at it's current value and give all other teams the same amount of points.

Praz this couldn't have been said any better!

[richba5tard]

Good points, point taken.

Massman is preparing an official statement about subteams, we're tightening the rules.

[Massman]

Originally Posted by harleybro

Maybe unethical but the scores could easily be blocked. This sub-team in question was logged into the forums yesterday afternoon but had nothing to add to the thread.? What is so unethical about blocking scores that are causing so much contraversy until a solution is determined?

I don't like to block scores too fast. To rush things is never good.

I had a conversation about the subteam with Sergey13 and he convinced me this was only to SHOW how easy it was to gain points using such subteams.

He asked us to move the scores to Mayk's account.

[harleybro]

Originally Posted by Massman

I don't like to block scores too fast. To rush things is never good.

I had a conversation about the subteam with Sergey13 and he convinced me this was only to SHOW how easy it was to gain points using such subteams.

He asked us to move the scores to Mayk's account.

I had a score blocked by you I believe on my account. It was my T5500 32m run which was done a few months ago and just blocked last week. I recieved the email and when I went to check it it was blocked already. The reason being I didn't have a cpu-z. Funny it would come to question since I do have #1 with that cpu in sisoft, wprime 1024, wprime 32, and #2 PiFast. Granted my 1M was slower but I guess it was hard to believe I could have scored in the top 3 don't remmber what place in 32m. As for too fast I guess the following day after an email is sent is the normal time for a result to be removed totally from an account.

I had just checked Mayk's account and there was dual scores for 8800GTX SLI in 03 and 06.

If it was to show how easy it was to gain points wouldn't someone let a mod or admin know about it here first?

[Gorod]

Originally Posted by Massman

this was only to SHOW how easy it was to gain points using such subteams.

Yeah right ... lol
Sound like a BS story to keep their hands clean to me .
Does anyone actualy believe in that ?

but anyways , good to know hwbot is coming up with updated rules and a statement about subteam runs and hopefully things like won't happen in future

[Massman]

Originally Posted by Gorod

Yeah right ... lol
Sound like a BS story to keep their hands clean to me .
Does anyone actualy believe in that ?

but anyways , good to know hwbot is coming up with updated rules and a statement about subteam runs and hopefully things like won't happen in future

I don't even care if it's to keep their hands clean or not. Sergey13 was most gentle and kind.