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Ryzen 1800X - Instant system crash when running sequence of FMA3 instructions. Request for verification.

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Unread 03-04-2017
Mysticial Mysticial is offline
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Exclamation Ryzen 1800X - Instant system crash when running sequence of FMA3 instructions. Request for verification.

One of my internal benchmark applications is insta-hard-freezing on Ryzen.
  • Ryzen 7 1800X
  • Asus Prime B350M-A (BIOS 0502)
  • 4 x 8GB Corsair CMK32GX4M4A2400C14 @ 2133 MHz
  • Nothing is overclocked. Everything is stock.
  • Windows 10 Anniversary Update

When I run the Haswell binary from here: https://github.com/Mysticial/Flops/t...naries-windows

The entire system usually freezes when it gets to:

Quote:
Single-Precision - 128-bit FMA3 - Fused Multiply Add:
Sometimes, it will make it past that, but it usually ends up crashing/freezing later on in the test anyway.

For those who don't trust the binary, the program is completely open-sourced in that GitHub repo. If you have Visual Studio installed: Open the project, build the x64 Haswell binary, and run.

For me this always hard freezes the computer:
  • At all clock speeds.
  • When running single-threaded, it happens to any core that I pin it to.

The questions that I want to answer are:
  1. Is this specific to my setup? No - Confirmed by multiple other people.
  2. Is this specific to Asus mobos or an immature BIOS? If so, can it be fixed with a later BIOS?
  3. Is this an issue with Windows? The crash does not seem to happen in Linux, but that is with slightly different code due to differing compilers.
  4. Is this a CPU errata? (I hope not - however unlikely it might be.)

---------------------------

Current Testing Status:

All of these are running Windows, and are at stock settings or underclocked.

Confirmed Crashes:
  1. 1800X + Asus Prime B350M-A (BIOS 0502)
  2. 1700 + Asus Prime B350M-A (BIOS ???)
  3. 1700 + Asus Crosshair VI Hero
  4. 1700 + Asus Crosshair VI Hero (BIOS 5803) (two sets of memory G.Skill + Kingston - also fails with overvolted SOC)
  5. 1800X + Asus Crosshair VI Hero (Windows 7) - Once pass, mostly failures.

Confirmed No-Crash:
  1. none yet


For those interested in the technical details, I'm getting hard freezes for all types of FMAs (128-bit, 256-bit, single and double precision). But for some reason, it only affects this particular benchmark. Other programs (like prime95 and y-cruncher) aren't affected despite using FMAs.

---------------------------

Update 3/16/2017:

As much as I had least expected this to be the case, this appears to have been confirmed as an errata in the AMD Zen processor. In other words, the last bullet on my list (and the most serious). Fortunately, it's one that is fixable with a microcode update and will not result in something catastrophic like a recall or the disabling of features.

To everyone pouring in from the various news sites:
  • The important part is that a user mode program should not be able to hard freeze the entire system. Because if it can (as is the case here), it makes it possible to perform DOS attacks. IOW, this errata is a security issue.
  • Don't be fooled by the "Haswell binary". The benchmark is 5 years old and I've largely neglected it for the last 3. So I haven't updated it for Zen yet. Any processor will be able to run any of the binaries if it supports the underlying instruction sets. If it doesn't, the program merely crashes with an, "illegal instruction". Under no circumstances should a user-mode application be able to bring down an entire system.
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Default Re: Ryzen 1800X - Instant system crash when running sequence of FMA3 instructions. Request for verification.

Confirmed at stock clocks on Ryzen 1700 on Crosshair motherboard. Becomes unresponsive, DRAM led flashing and 8 on q-code display.
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Default Re: Ryzen 1800X - Instant system crash when running sequence of FMA3 instructions. Request for verification.

Uh oh... This doesn't look good. I also have one other confirmation on a different forum.

Other things to note: It doesn't always freeze instantly. I have a different Win10 installation that sometimes manages to survive the first FMA test only to crash on the second.

The crash doesn't reproduce in Linux, but the code for Linux is slightly different since it uses a different compiler.
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Default Re: Ryzen 1800X - Instant system crash when running sequence of FMA3 instructions. Request for verification.

Guysm do you have last BIOSes for motherboards? Whats your voltage in BIOS or CPUZ in load?
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Default Re: Ryzen 1800X - Instant system crash when running sequence of FMA3 instructions. Request for verification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flanker View Post
Guysm do you have last BIOSes for motherboards? Whats your voltage in BIOS or CPUZ in load?
For me yes. BIOS 0502 (February 28)

The BIOS and AI Suite show a vcore of 1.350. CPUz shows it as 1.550. And it also happens when underclocked to 2.2 GHz.

The Windows Event Log occasionally manages to record which core it crashes on. It's pretty random among all 16 vcores. There's no single core that it always happens to. IOW, I don't see any signs of weakness to a specific core.
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Default Re: Ryzen 1800X - Instant system crash when running sequence of FMA3 instructions. Request for verification.

Its clear, seems too high voltage...Its possible this voltage is for XFR/turbo. You can try disable turbo in BIOS and try the test again and watch your voltage/temps
1800X is hot chip with voltage, 1700 or 1700X have lower temps with same voltage.
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Default Re: Ryzen 1800X - Instant system crash when running sequence of FMA3 instructions. Request for verification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flanker View Post
Its clear, seems too high voltage...Its possible this voltage is for XFR/turbo. You can try disable turbo in BIOS and try the test again and watch your voltage/temps
1800X is hot chip with voltage, 1700 or 1700X have lower temps with same voltage.
There's no option to disable XFR or turbo in my BIOS. I don't trust CPUz's vcore reading since it is clearly too high and it conflicts with AI Suite. These are at stock settings, so it shouldn't getting anywhere near 1.5 anyway.

When I use AI Suite to manually downclock, it seems to disable both the XFR and the turbo and it holds the frequency steady at 2.2 GHz. The vcore seems to stay at a static 1.35 (under load) according to AI Suite. Again CPUz jumps all the over place to as high as 1.550.

But that's beside the point. It really shouldn't be crashing at stock settings - let alone downclock. Which is why I'm looking for more people to test this on different motherboards and from different manufacturers.

So far I have 3 positive confirmations (crash), and zero negative confirmations (did not crash).

The crashes have these setups - all running at stock and/or underclocked.
  1. 1800X + Asus Prime B350M-A (BIOS 0502)
  2. 1700 + Asus Prime B350M-A (BIOS ???)
  3. 1700 + Asus CrossHair

The unanswered questions that I want to know are:
  1. Specific to my setup? No - Confirmed by two other people.
  2. Specific to Asus mobos or an immature BIOS? If so, can it be fixed with a later BIOS?
  3. Is this an issue with Windows?
  4. Is this a CPU errata? (I hope not - however unlikely it might be.)
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Last edited by Mysticial; 03-06-2017 at 21:28.
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Default Re: Ryzen 1800X - Instant system crash when running sequence of FMA3 instructions. Request for verification.

So, try it different, what you will see in HWinfo about voltage in load? https://www.fosshub.com/HWiNFO.html/hw64_545_3090.zip

Its bad for me, because I have not here yet the test setup with Ryzen (tomorow with Crosshair).
Iny my theory it could be:
-overheating the CPU or VRM because the vcore is fluctuating to high at auto settings
-BIOS issue
-Windows 10 issue (Win7 seems more ready for Ryzens as few guys at another forum wrote)

PS:HPET is enabled via cmd in WIndows?
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Default Re: Ryzen 1800X - Instant system crash when running sequence of FMA3 instructions. Request for verification.

Mystical can this program run in win 7? If so can you please try it for me?

flanker I have an idea that its not related to that stuff nor smt.

errata I doubt misinformed as to how much cache really exists possibly or the memory.

Before you go rip a windows install put in one quick test. Use 1 stick please run and tell me if they are double sided and if it runs.

Also what is the default SOC voltage on that board.
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Last edited by chew*; 03-08-2017 at 08:21.
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Default Re: Ryzen 1800X - Instant system crash when running sequence of FMA3 instructions. Request for verification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flanker View Post
So, try it different, what you will see in HWinfo about voltage in load? https://www.fosshub.com/HWiNFO.html/hw64_545_3090.zip

Its bad for me, because I have not here yet the test setup with Ryzen (tomorow with Crosshair).
Iny my theory it could be:
-overheating the CPU or VRM because the vcore is fluctuating to high at auto settings
-BIOS issue
-Windows 10 issue (Win7 seems more ready for Ryzens as few guys at another forum wrote)

PS:HPET is enabled via cmd in WIndows?
Enabling/disabling HPET has no effect. Both instantly crash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chew* View Post
Mystical can this program run in win 7? If so can you please try it for me?
I can't install Win7 because the installer doesn't have USB drivers and I don't have a PS2 mouse/keyboard.
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