Teams within teams getting single rank.

[sacha35]

New subteam rulesDear HWBot members,

In the past we have stated that for joined benchmark sessions users could register a new account to start a subteam. The impact of these subteams, however, was more than a bit underestimated. Our Russian friends of the Russian Overs Team, Sergey13 and Mayk, clearly showed the HWBot crew how easy it was for their team to gain HWBoints just by registering more subteams. Along with the negative response posted by members on our forums, we are obliged to rewrite the guidelines.

From now on, we still encourage joined benchmark sessions, but the results must be uploaded in this way:

- For videocard benchmarks (3DMark01/03/05/06, Aquamark): upload the results to the account of the owner of the videocard.
- For processor benchmarks (SuperPi1M/32M, PCMark05, wPrime32M/1024M, PiFast): upload the results to the account of the owner of the processor.
- Uploading lower scores on other accounts than the one of owner of the hardware is not allowed.

Sergey13 and Mayk have already asked us to manualy move the results to another account and we kindly ask other members, in the same situation, to do the same.

- The HWBot crew.


19 comments - posted on 10 August, 2007 by Massman

[bazx]

jmke if it is OK to create sub teams i will go and talk with my team and give you a list of the guys who will form the new sub teams

and you or massman can move the points and delete the old member names

Can you answer me is it ok to do this yes or no?

[Massman]

Originally Posted by bazx

so i could still create smaller teams form within my team that say only have 100pt each

and they would be able to share there hardware

this would save them some money as sharing would be OK within the new groups

That should not really a problem, but know that none of the people who are in a subteam is allowed to have another account on hwbot OR is allowed to be in two subteams. Hardware cannot be shared between teams, so one cannot give his hardware to another team.

Creating a personal account next to the subteam's account will be considered as hardware sharing. Sharing hardware between subteams will also be considered hardware sharing.

!! Before I explicitly say YES or NO, I'd like to have a look at the implications of the concept points-wise. !!

Originally Posted by bazx

i would say its a money and points

if 3 guys share hardware they save money

also they have more time to bench as while one has the hardware and benches the others can be doing something else

and when here runs out of time to bench he just sends the hardware to his team mate who then continues to bench so the hardware is being benched all the the time and scores will improve

for us the creation of many smaller teams within our team would be very helpful some of our guys on tight budgets or only have time to bench once a month could form there own groups
and share there hardware as you have outlined all under a new name

Money - yes: you can split the costs of hardware
Points - no: as I demonstrated by calculating the points if the top4 members of BenchTec shared an account.

Originally Posted by sacha35

- For videocard benchmarks (3DMark01/03/05/06, Aquamark): upload the results to the account of the owner of the videocard.
- For processor benchmarks (SuperPi1M/32M, PCMark05, wPrime32M/1024M, PiFast): upload the results to the account of the owner of the processor.
- Uploading lower scores on other accounts than the one of owner of the hardware is not allowed.

No violation of these rules. The three people who form the BenchBros team upload scores to the account they own.

Originally Posted by bazx

jmke if it is OK to create sub teams i will go and talk with my team and give you a list of the guys who will form the new sub teams

and you or massman can move the points and delete the old member names

Can you answer me is it ok to do this yes or no?

First of all: RB is the only one who's able to merge accounts of members (requires action in the database itself). Since we have time restrictions, I insist that you take the time to think things through. There's no way that we'll merge everything first and then split it up if turns out your team plummets in the team rankings ... that would take too much time.

Points-wise, I can onlys see one benefit which is that you will have less low-point members in your team; your team's total will drop significantly and you won't suddenly have top5 members. Oh, and people will lose their personal accounts.

[bazx]

!! Before I explicitly say YES or NO, I'd like to have a look at the implications of the concept points-wise. !!

we will wait until you have said Yes or No before we work on the new team layout

we will also be working on how the points will be effected and where it would be best to form sub teams

[Jokester]

Originally Posted by Massman

I calculated the points of this hypothetical account: 858.5 (incl. 300 hw points).

I think a lot of you underestimate the effects of joined accounts. It's not a win-win situation.

The team would lose a lot of points too

Some people might not be overly concerned about their teams score, but it does go to show that doing this will get a group further up the table than they would have otherwise as individuals, which as some have pointed out, might be the difference between getting sponsored or not or anyother plaudits that are handed out by HWbot and others.

[Massman]

Manufacturers don't start giving hardware JUST because people have a high individual hwbot ranking .

[Jokester]

Originally Posted by Massman

Manufacturers don't start giving hardware JUST because people have a high individual hwbot ranking .

But it certainly isn't a hinderance.

[Massman]

It shouldn't be

[K404]

Originally Posted by massman

!! Before I explicitly say YES or NO, I'd like to have a look at the implications of the concept points-wise. !!

Thanks Thats really all that we ask so things are worked out to be as fair as possible to everyone involved.


possibly off-topic... I believe a lot of this WILL come down to money. Using an example of 3 people benching together under one name- If hardware was cheap, each of them could afford to buy it themselves and bench it. That would bring more points to their actual team and they would still have good personal rankings..which really would be personal because it was them on their own.

People benching (or at least...submitting) alone would be better for their actual team because of the hardware category allocation as well but thats not to say that people joining forces in this way can only be bad for teams- GLOBALLY, they will be noticed more and we all know that all-out world records get more attention than the No.1 spots for...a 7800GT or whatever.

[r1ch]

To really break things down so it's hopefully simpler to understand, i'll try and explain what I think the main issues are.

Single Person example:
£500 for hardware
10 hours per week for benching
= No chance of global points
= Same limitations for 2 other members.

Group of 3 people:
£1500 for hardware
(Hardware points without trying)
30 hours per week for benching
(Lots of time to share overclock settings)
= Global points galore.

The problem is that we are all competing in a "member" ranking. How is 1 person vs 3 people a fair contest?

The hwbot team are right to say that if you combined peoples current point scores, you wouldn't get more points so that argument is wrong.

But the main point is that looking forward, if 3 team members teamed up it would open doors and points not available to a single person. Think about this in the worst scenario and you could have the top 10 "members" on hwbot being groups of people - is that right? No.

I'll admit I don't know what the solution is.